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Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

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Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#771

Post by noduerme »

gwbas1c wrote: post #762
noduerme wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prices and packages aside, I'm asking can you turn on basic cruise control without turning on any form of automatic steering? To me, design hubris is forcing someone to accept a choice-limiting or poorly documented form of automation in order to accept a more basic form. I have a Fiat 124 Spider... love it, but it has one "feature" that I absolutely hate, which is that if you hold the clutch down and brake while stop…

> Prices and packages aside, I'm asking can you turn on basic cruise control without turning on any form of automatic steering? Yes. BTW, the automatic steering is very easy to override by just turning the wheel. When I change lanes I just turn the wheel and then turn autopilot back on. BTW, I also had a Subaru that held the clutch on a hill. I really appreciated it in San Francisco. Personally, I don't understand th…

I learned to drive stick on the hills in LA, and owned a manual in SF... not rolling backward is part of being a good driver. I'm just saying I'd like the option to turn it off w/o disabling antilock brakes. For me, the feature creates unpredictable stalls or dangerous situations, because you never know if it's engaging. It engages on a 4% grade or something; it's hard to know if you're at 3% or not before you take your foot off the brake and find your car not moving as you let out the clutch. If you assume the brake is on and it isn't, you let the clutch out further to override it (also not marked how much throttle that takes) and you shoot forward into the car in front of you. If you assume it's off and it's actually on, you stall. People who live in parts of the world where there's only manual transmissions know how to drive a manual car. I think it was made for people who've only driven automatic but chose a manual this time. The Fiat 124 up until last year was the only car sold in America where the automatic model was still more expensive - an add-on. AFAIK.

I don't care what features they add, and I've heard other people not be bothered by it. Just give me a way to turn them off!

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#772

Post by diebeforei485 »

mrguyorama wrote: post #549
diebeforei485 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Propellant for the return trip can be made on Mars using the Sabatier process. This has been known for decades. (This is why the engines for Starship are designed to use methane). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Direct

The CONCEPT has been known for decades. Who has put a fuel processing facility on mars? I think there was some minor chemistry experiment on one of the rovers to go in that direction. The raw energy required to make that fuel, using ANY conceivable process, is extreme though. What energy solution has been proposed? How much solar acreage do you need? How will you keep the dust off the panels? Will there be any option…

> Who has put a fuel processing facility on mars?

No one, because it hasn't been required or even feasible yet. We don't have the ability to send that sort of payload to Mars yet.

> How will you keep the dust off the panels?

I hear Tesla is working on a humanoid robot.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#773

Post by dylan604 »

mike_d wrote: post #746
dylan604 wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the recall a voluntary recall by the company or something the company was told to do by a regulator? To me, recall means much more than just having to have the company replace something. It means they have to do it at their expense. So in this case, it's not as bad for Tesla's bottom line if it is just an OTA update. A recall is something that the car industry is used to doing whenever they have to fix a mistake.…

Almost all car recalls are voluntary because once it becomes a mandatory recall the government can require them to provide a buyback option to the vehicle owner.

oh, that would be amazeballs to have Tesla reimburse the cost of the FSD purchase. i never drank the Tesla kool-aid, so it would be good karma to see them get dinged for the snake-oil they've sold as FSD

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#774

Post by diebeforei485 »

londons_explore wrote: post #572
diebeforei485 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Propellant for the return trip can be made on Mars using the Sabatier process. This has been known for decades. (This is why the engines for Starship are designed to use methane). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Direct

But it's probably cheaper to just make a new ship. It's mostly made of iron and steel, that we have here on earth in abundance. One day, the economics of return trips will work out. But to begin with at least, all trips will be one-way.

Unmanned trips on Starship will definitely be one-way to begin with.

It's highly unlikely that trips with humans on board would be one-way.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#775

Post by diebeforei485 »

bhauer wrote: post #557
diebeforei485 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of car owners don't have reliable internet at home and live outside of cell tower coverage (mountainous areas, especially). Statistically these are not likely to be Tesla owners, but it's about making sure people know about the issue and how to fix it.

When GP says "the update could be displayed on-screen," they are referring to the car's user interface, and not a secondary device like a computer or cell phone. Incidentally, when you point out the issue of missing a theoretical electronic version of the notice because of spotty Internet connectivity, in such a scenario, they wouldn't be able to receive the OTA update either.

When they get the letter in the mail, they'll know to take their car to the nearest library or Starbucks or wherever with wi-fi to install the update.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#776

Post by diebeforei485 »

jjav wrote: post #765
diebeforei485 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recall implies something being returned. This should be called a mandatory software patch, or something like that. The problem is Tesla owners repeatedly see "recall" to mean "software update", so this might lead to a lot of confusion if a physical recall is actually required in the future.

> Recall implies something being returned. That's where the word came from, that's true. But a legal framework has built up around the concept over the decades which isn't dependent on you having to drive the car to the dealer, all of which still applies, so the word is still used.

Over-the-air software updates haven't really been a thing until Tesla (previous cars that required software updates still required visiting a dealer or service center) so what we have here is an outdated legal framework.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#777

Post by diebeforei485 »

buffington wrote: post #519
diebeforei485 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these delivered directly to the device and installed overnight automatically (like an iPhone iOS update) or do they have to be hooked up to a computer to install the software update?

If Tesla replaced the actual computer that runs the software that they're recalling, would you consider that a recall? What if there was no actual physical fault with the computer, but it just had firmware flashed to a chip that couldn't be reflashed? I'm looking at a piece of mail right now that's an official recall notice for a different make/model of car I own. The issue? Improperly adjusted steering components. T…

> If Tesla replaced the actual computer that runs the software that they're recalling, would you consider that a recall?

Yeah, it requires physically taking the car to a mechanic or dealer who does this. Very different from using the software update button on the car touchscreen.

> Improperly adjusted steering components. The company is offering to make the correct adjustments for free. Nothing is being replaced.

This is clearly a recall, because it requires taking the vehicle to a mechanic or dealer.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#778

Post by abudabi123 »

thomaskcr wrote: post #663
diebeforei485 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recall implies something being returned. This should be called a mandatory software patch, or something like that. The problem is Tesla owners repeatedly see "recall" to mean "software update", so this might lead to a lot of confusion if a physical recall is actually required in the future.

I like that we're arguing over the word "recall" being an issue when the system it applies to is called "full self driving". I think calling a level 2 driver assistance system "full self driving" is a much bigger inaccuracy.

Rebrand the "full self driving" marketing to "driver assist optimist".

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#779

Post by ggreer »

Veserv wrote: post #639
ggreer wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about standard speed limit signs. You're talking about the signs that warn about sharp turns and advise maximum speeds. Yes it would be good if the software understood those signs, but that's a different issue. Teslas definitely read speed limit signs. I've had mine correctly detect and follow speed limits in areas without connectivity or map data. It also follows speed limits on private drives (if there…

So they read some, but not all speed limit signs, and especially not the really important ones that inform you that you will be going dangerously fast if you do not read and follow them. That is criminally unacceptable.

Can you name any car manufacturer that has software to read those signs?

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#780

Post by moremetadata »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #775
bhauer wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When GP says "the update could be displayed on-screen," they are referring to the car's user interface, and not a secondary device like a computer or cell phone. Incidentally, when you point out the issue of missing a theoretical electronic version of the notice because of spotty Internet connectivity, in such a scenario, they wouldn't be able to receive the OTA update either.

When they get the letter in the mail, they'll know to take their car to the nearest library or Starbucks or wherever with wi-fi to install the update.

So Tesla vehicles dont ping notices to other tesla vehicles passing out update info, in much the same way like the covid smartphone bluetooth vicinity checks worked. Thats surprises me, I think even Windows now lets an updated computer notify and update other windows pc's that are more off grid, its called delivery optimisation, but should work for local hotspots in the wild.
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