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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#771

Post by tayo42 »

pronlover723 wrote: post #496

It's somewhat infuriating. You use to tip waiters/waitresses. They took your order and brought it to you. Now they ask for tips when they do none of that. Every non-chain fast food joint / coffee stand where all they do is stand at the cash register, take your order, and hand it to you, they now ask for a tip. The bakery asks for a tip. The taco stand asks for a tip. On top of that, in SF, prices are off the chart. W…

I don't get why food is so expensive in the US. You would think economy of scale would kick in at some point. I eat at home now except for being social and tbh even then I'd rather just cook for a group. A good cookbook will get you better food then almost all restaurants. Even obscure ingredients from Asia are imported or even grown in the US now. There are a few exceptions

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#772

Post by vbezhenar »

I don't understand why people tip. I never tip. Sometimes tips are included in cheque as a flat percentage, that's fine for me as long as it's stated before order. But why would I pay more than necessary to someone who did his work? That makes no sense for me. If you're not paid well, leave and find another work, that's none of my business. I'm not that rich to throw money around to everyone who wants it.

And if the service is bad, I'll require to fix it or decline to pay at all.

I guess that cultural thing.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#773

Post by rapht »

hooby wrote: post #751

In some countries like afaik Japan, it's customary to NOT tip and actually leaving a tip might be seen as an insult - as if you tried to insinuate they aren't paying their employees enough. I don't know why here in the west it's common practice to actually not pay employees enough and rely entirely on tips. Without those tips, many job offers in the service industry would not be attractive, as they don't pay enough t…

> I don't know why here in the west it's common practice to actually not pay employees enough and rely entirely on tips

It's really mostly the case in North America. In most of Europe, tipping is more an exception than a rule. "Normal" service (i.e. being nice to clients and appropriately responding to requests given the standing of the place) is expected to be included in the price. I tip only when I got really outstanding service, and even then, mostly as a symbolic gesture of appreciation (2-5% ballpark figure).

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#774

Post by michaelt »

8note wrote: post #460
Larrikin wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities are making it illegal, as they should. It's not always meant in bad faith, but it's also a form of gentrification that hurts the poor and unbanked by removing yet another service from them. https://www.nssh.com/2020/04/philadelphias-ban-on-cashless-s... I personally never use anything but cards since I have many of the high reward credit cards. But I've also had family members with tax liens or other problems…

> that didn't allow them to get a bank account This sounds like the real problem to solve. It's unacceptable for people to be unable to get a bank account and whatever cards to pay cashless

America has a substantial underclass of undocumented migrants who would presumably not be interested in getting their KYC info and employment details put in a big database.

The status of such migrants is (AIUI) a fraught issue politically, and I'm not sure you can resolve the issues of the unbanked without resolving it.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#775

Post by alex7734 »

oefrha wrote: post #262
akomtu wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you show the full price with taxes upfront, that's an astonishing level of integrity. One idea is to print qr codes on coffee cups: customers can scan those and leave anonymous feedback later.

> If you show the full price with taxes upfront, that's an astonishing level of integrity. It’s funny, what you see is what you pay doesn’t require an astonishing level of integrity in much (most?) of the world, it’s just standard practice; instead, tacking on hidden fees not on the price tag would be unthinkable.

Not just standard practice, it's mandatory, for consumer facing prices you will get shut down if you don't include tax in it (and detail how much of it is tax in the receipt)

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#776

Post by moritonal »

FrontierPsych wrote: post #683
jandrewrogers wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context matters. The dynamics of the business are fundamentally different because many employees prefer tips to the alternative, and they have have many options where to work. Employees have a lot of leverage due to a chronic labor shortage. This dynamic has played out time and again in Seattle, where business owners tried to switch to a "no tipping" model with a 20% mandatory service charge but ultimately had to rel…

I don't like the proliferation of tipping everywhere. But I know many sit-down restaurants have tried to institute a no-tip policy, but both employees and customers hate it. I would hate it. I like giving tips. I wouldn't go to a restaurant where tipping was not allowed. Plus, the restaurant has to raise their prices up by 20% anyways, because they now have to pay their wait staff more. The customer pays anyways. So…

To explain my down-vote. Firstly, many people, even smart ones are bad at mental math. The idea extra charges are added at the end is literally a dark-patterns used to trick people into spending more money because they are bad at doing this.

Next, why do _some_ waitstaff make a lot of tips, and not others. You don't acknowledge how in almost every biased way possible tipping promotes some people, and punishes others.

Lastly, I personally find tipping and therefore your slightly aggressive defense of it, kinda gross? It's a power-trip at the end of the day to control someone else's actions with your money. Sure, that's life, but with tipping it's so blunt.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#777

Post by pull_my_finger »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #647
4gotunameagain wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how one person opened a coffee shop which basically operates like every single coffee shop in the world apart from the US , and you guys need a detailed write up, charts, flow charts, tips for the secret sauce :)

Context matters. The dynamics of the business are fundamentally different because many employees prefer tips to the alternative, and they have have many options where to work. Employees have a lot of leverage due to a chronic labor shortage. This dynamic has played out time and again in Seattle, where business owners tried to switch to a "no tipping" model with a 20% mandatory service charge but ultimately had to rel…

> tried to switch to a "no tipping" model with a 20% mandatory service charge

Sounds like a false dichotomy. Why is the only other option still an imposed cost on the customer? Wouldn't it be nice if the bad servers just got fired like any other profession and the good servers got a bonus or something from the business owner?

Maybe people shouldn't "aspire" to be cafe baristas and chain restaurant wait staff. There are plenty of students and elderly that could handle the job and also handle the minimum wage. There's no reason those jobs should be lucrative, unless the business owners (rightly) realize those staff are the face of their operations, but in that case, again, the business owner should "invest" in their higher salaries to hopefully bring in business. None of this should be imposed on customers. Just my opinion.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#778

Post by encryptluks2 »

It is nice to see logical comments. I brought up the tipping culture issue during COVID-19 cause that is when I saw businesses start exploiting it substantially, and I swear there was some pro-tipping mafia on major message boards that would say you deserve spit in your food is you don't tip, you deserve to be beat up, etc. I believe the service industry is literally engaged in culture wars but fortunately other people have started to wake up to the issues and the discussion is no longer being insta-downvoted like it was before.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#779

Post by jonathanstrange »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #524
dang wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should write a longer piece about your coffee shop! and the process behind it. If you do, you should submit it to HN - and if you do that you should email us (hn@ycombinator.com) because we might put it in the second-chance pool ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 ).

I love how one person opened a coffee shop which basically operates like every single coffee shop in the world apart from the US , and you guys need a detailed write up, charts, flow charts, tips for the secret sauce :)

Sorry, I've lived my whole life in Europe in three different countries and have never been to a café where you can't pay in cash and don't tip. Tipping works differently, e.g. in my current country of residence you leave cash on the table, but unless your bill is very low (say, below 5 EUR) not tipping is still a bit rude. There used to be no tipping at all but with the increase in tourism that's no longer the norm.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#780

Post by zarzavat »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #702
midasuni wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still plenty of restaurants with “service charge” at the bottom of the menu

Yep, in the UK it's almost always a 12.5% service charge. Almost always with terrible service of course.

This is because nobody carries any cash around anymore. And it's not socially acceptable for waiters to ask customers how much they want to tip. You just tap your card on the portable terminal.

As for the service being terrible, it can be. But British people generally don't like to be interrupted during their meal. So the waitstaff have a tougher job to be present but not harassing.

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