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EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

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Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#771

Post by pabs3 »

MrThoughtful wrote: post #179

Like so often with new laws, I think a more general one would have been better. Why is it about apps, app stores, developers, voice assistants and all that specific stuff? In my opinion, it should just have been this: A company is not allowed to artificially restrict what users can do with the products they bought. Then it would also not be allowed to restrict people from installing alternative operating systems on t…

Linux on older iPads is already possible, because the bootrom of those devices has a flaw that lets you run arbitrary code:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/06/developers-get-linux... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31624185

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#772

Post by ls15 »

hyperpape wrote: post #175

There's several very good provisions in this legislation (3rd party payment processors, non-preferential treatment for 1st party apps), there are several that have a mix of upsides and downsides (sideloading is one--I personally like knowing that Facebook can't ask people to sideload some privacy destroying crap on iOS). Then there's: - Allow developers to integrate their apps and digital services directly with those…

> I support people who want a FOSS device that is in no way locked down. I just don't want that, because I don't want to play systems administrator for an always on tracker in my pocket.

    Settings > General > Enable Expert Mode
Problem solved

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#774

Post by simion314 »

stevewatson301 wrote: post #748
simion314 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft was forced to create open standards for documents, the docx format.

This is a particularly bad example since the OOXML standardization process was fraught with issues and there are deviations between the standard and Microsoft’s implementation. For starters, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML

So instead of something imperfect you prefer nothing, great I am sure Apple stuff is not perfect so don't use it.

We use open source docx tools and write code to work with docx format so the actual reality is that it works infinity times better then attempting to reverse engineer some proprietary binary stuff .

People would make open sourse stuff to connect to Apple things and if Ap[ple is as bad as Microsoft we can call them out and try to do our best with or code to workaround the imperfections.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#775

Post by theshrike79 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #184
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #85

I really hope Sony and Nintendo are classified as gatekeepers as well because this > Allow users to install apps from third-party app stores and sideload directly from the internet. would be huge for Playstation and Switch owners.

Not really similar. Sony, MS, and Nintendo already allow games to be purchased from other retailers, and always have. (See, for example, Game Stop, Best Buy, Target, etc.) Even digital downloads can be purchased from other retailers (i.e., Amazon). Thus, their in-console storefronts are just one of several options that players can use to purchase games. In contrast, the only way to get iPhone apps is through the App…

Yes, but you can't get a devkit for a console without Sony/MS/Nintendo approval.

No devkit, no game. Dunno if they still gatekeep the physical products.

Apple takes the $99 developer license and that's it. You get full access to all tools and the App Store. Releasing a new version doesn't cost you anything extra.

I wouldn't even know how to go about creating an Xbox or PS game. Who do I contact, where do I pay and how much? What rules do you have to follow to get your indie game on the Playstation Store or XBox Store?

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#776

Post by theshrike79 »

bageljr wrote: post #747
MatthiasPortzel wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“They certainly have the money to keep pace with Chrome” This point has been made before. But Chrome is a moving target. I actually am skeptical that Apple can spend more money on WebKit than Google can on Blink. The way Chrome rose to prominence was by implement brand-new web standards faster than anyone else. If the question is only, “what engine supports the most websites,” I suspect Chrome will increase their dev…

Isn't that a good thing? Like I'm a full time firefox user but what you're saying is "Google and Apple will fund development of web browsers/engines that support new APIs to outcompete each other"

Chrome is the new Internet Explorer. They have a ridiculous market share.

It's not about standards, it's about being Chrome-compatible.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#777

Post by theshrike79 »

dado3212 wrote: post #517
hackerlight wrote: post #2

> Make messaging, voice-calling, and video-calling services interoperable with third-party services upon request. I hope this means WhatsApp will be somewhat interoperable with equivalent messaging platforms. But I suppose this is just designed to target iMessage. Or have I misunderstood? > Ensure that all apps are uninstallable. Finally I will be able to uninstall Microsoft Edge.

This isn't "I can integrate WhatsApp with Slack" this is "I can set my default text app/call app/video app from iMessage/Phone/FaceTime to a third-party app". Same with setting default browser.

"interoperable with third-party services" does not mean "change default app".

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#778

Post by jlokier »

stale2002 wrote: post #714
KerrAvon wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will not be a benefit to consumers. If I have a choice of an Android phone or an Android-like phone with an Apple logo on it, I don’t have a real choice.

Sure you do have a real choice. Simply only use the Apple app store and you will have the same phone you had before.

> Simply only use the Apple app store and you will have the same phone you had before.

That's not really true. Apps you need and currently use may well be moved from the Apple app store.

For example WhatsApp. Some people have to use it, not because they want to. Some have to use it for work. One day they may have to install the Meta app store to get WhatsApp, and agree to permissions and access to their personal data that they don't like at all, because there will be no gatekeeping pressure from Apple on WhatsApp to not do that.

Maybe Chrome, the world's only browser by then that most sites are tested on, will require the Google app store with special advertisement and behaviour influencing hooks enabled. Don't like them? No Chrome for you and your banking website doesn't work on your phone.

Maybe the banking apps will move to SecurTrust Special Banking App Store With Device Verify(tm) too.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#779

Post by stevewatson301 »

stale2002 wrote: post #755
stevewatson301 wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the current App Store model works fine. There could perhaps be more stringent government regulation around app development and data practices, but I don't believe that's the solution either as it would kill off small time devs entirely.

You are missing the point. The current app store model requires giving Apple 15-30%. That is part of the reason why there is now a law, in the EU, that will force the app ecosystem open. And people are pretending like they care about things like privacy, and yet the solution that the person I was responding to gave does not solve the privacy issue, and instead just gives Apple money. The point here, is if you actuall…

You're missing the point too. The App store did have some enforcement of privacy and security, which can't exist in a decentralized system that has now been enforced.

Sure, app developers would have more freedoms, but we're back to the OP's point - this is not a good thing as they too don't have the user's best interest in mind. Looking at the record of data breaches, I see it's Apple or Google who have held a high standard so far, while app developers have been rampantly abusing users for their own interests.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#780

Post by raxxorraxor »

hyperpape wrote: post #175

There's several very good provisions in this legislation (3rd party payment processors, non-preferential treatment for 1st party apps), there are several that have a mix of upsides and downsides (sideloading is one--I personally like knowing that Facebook can't ask people to sideload some privacy destroying crap on iOS). Then there's: - Allow developers to integrate their apps and digital services directly with those…

Smartphones would be far more useful devices and we would have a far healthier software landscape if developers could just access these features and deploy software as is. It is the official provisioned apps through proprietary stores that track users far more than apps you can download and install on other systems. Apple would deny this but they have a clear business incentive here.

Sure, the user would have the responsibility again but it is easy to explain to them that they shouldn't do anything they have no idea about.

> As an end user, the things that give developers maximum freedom are not necessarily the things that let me use my device with maximum freedom.

No, that is usually untrue and the distinction is arbitrary. The exception is malicious software perhaps but this is an edge case. But even with that the user can choose to just don't install software he doesn't know. You can be pretty sure the average FOSS device will track you far less than Apple or Google alternatives and it is not even close on pretty much all metrics. You also don't need to play administrator if you don't want to.

What tracks you is the random H&M app that has access to bluetooth you got provision through the app store.

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