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Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

mitadmissions.org

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Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#771

Post by gpt5 »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #754
DownUnde wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the effects of actively racist institutions and policies is not even a generation away. I Don't think leveling the field that should be level in the first place isn't racism. what is real racism to you honest question.

I can't really understand what you're saying there. There are actively racist institutions now, their systemic racism is affecting people today, and they are continually pushing for more racism. The racists are becoming more emboldened and blatant -- look at California prop 16, there was a push to explicitly repeal the constitutional prohibition against racial discrimination ! And it was only narrowly defeated! Does…

> I have no problem with institutions giving consideration to people who have experienced certain disadvantage. The income their parents made, for example

Just wanted to note that this is partly why the SAT was stopped from being used at MIT and other universities - because it tend to score lower for people who are considered to be under disadvantage. In other words, I'm not sure that this approach necessarily leads to a more positive outcome.

Edit: Looks like HN resolve this and it's ranked properly now (no offense meant to the OP).

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#772

Post by [deleted] »

charlieyu1 wrote: post #601
ceeplusplus wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> huge slap in the face to social mobility out of the middle class No, it was an intentional move to restrict the number of Asians admitted because despite their best efforts to hide it, prestigious universities' data showed systemic discrimination against Asians in the admissions process (see: SFFA vs Harvard). Removing the SAT removes some of the data that opponents can use to sue them. One of the reasons the UC re…

And this benefit the rich kids who can spend thousands of dollars per year to hire someone to plan a good resume for them

[deleted]

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#773

Post by mitchdoogle »

xphos wrote: post #726
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The notion of a "well rounded student" ... > is a legacy of blue blood WASP culture First of all, I don't know what "blue blood WASP culture" is. Explain that please. Second, there's nothing wrong with expecting students to participate in extra-curricular activities like music and art as a basis for admission. MIT is still going to evaluate those things.

WASP is White anglo saxon protosant and is to indicate that a "right" and "proper" person ought to know music and etc, but only in so much depth that it demonstrates there wealth. Which is how extra-curricular creep sometimes shows up when people apply to college and were President of X club and play Y sport, while not really having a deep interest in the activity. When you are treating an activity as a resume builde…

How can you tell whether someone is treating an activity as a resume builder or if they genuinely value it and enjoy it

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#774

Post by gpt5 »

fsckboy wrote: post #765

as an MIT alum, a wealthy one who thought he would leave his fortune to MIT, I applaud this move, but it doesn't get me back to giving. MIT shouldn't have stopped requiring the tests in the first place, shouldn't have participated in that anti-intellectual "shut down tech" day or whatever that was, and shouldn't have done a dozen other things like cancel speakers to bow to a woke mob. MIT needs to sign up to the Chic…

> IQ science is well established, and it is well known that the SAT is an IQ test, plain and simple. To pretend otherwise is to dissemble, to be anti-science. Hopefully, MIT will save itself, but I'm sadly not expecting miracles.

The "woke mob" you called is also well established, and people in academia have been fired before for recognizing aspects of IQ tests (e.g. Ronald Sullivan, a dean at Harvard). I agree with your sentiment, but also want to recognize that it takes time for the policy makers at MIT to fight against this trend.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#775

Post by lightup »

ciabattabread wrote: post #755
lightup wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dick comment

good job teaching your kids that if you don't get what you want, always blame others and everyone's out to get you.

Yes, we blame others because we failed to work hard and get good grades and the world has it out for us. Woah is us. DiD I dO tHiS rIgHt?

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#776

Post by lightup »

DownUnde wrote: post #728
lightup wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He applied to [redacted] State, Rice, UNC, Duke, and U of MN - Twin Cities. Accepted at [redacted] State (they have a formula for everyone). He also got their highest out of state "scholarship" - which is more like a break on out of state tuition - no reciprocity with MN. No word from Duke yet but that probably won't happen either. Complete disaster for his future and really a shot to his otherwise happy and optimist…

Your son quite frankly should have expected this. I'm always wary of parents sharing "horror" stories of college application for multiple reasons. #1 Admissions are a crap shoot and you can't just apply to very selective schools and expect to walk maybe one of those schools is safety rest are reaches for any student in the country, his acceptances are most likely par for his skill level, Congrats on the test scores b…

Wrong. https://blog.prepscholar.com/how-many-people-get-a-34-35-36-... 36 = 4,100 students 35 = 12,000 students

Slightly less than 50k.

UMN app has no essay or anything like that. Your disbelief is your intuition which is that something here is wrong.

In the words of Principal Skinner, "It must be the children."

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#777

Post by mitchdoogle »

delaynomore wrote: post #738
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to high school in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and almost all of the top academic students in my class were first or second generation immigrants (mostly Indian) that had no interest in extra-curricular activities like sports, band, choir, or really anything. It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial…

>almost all of the top academic students in my class were first or second generation immigrants (mostly Indian) that had no interest in extra-curricular activities like sports, band, choir, or really anything. I suspect it's more like their parents prohibit them from having any interest in these extra-curricular activities. Academics > *.

Ya it's hard to imagine teenagers have no interest in doing things outside of schoolwork

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#778

Post by alskdjflaskjdhf »

frankchn wrote: post #539
fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, a lot of tests like that are actually testing for memorization, and not problem solving ability.

I don't think the math part of the Gaokao tests memorization. Looking at a sample paper ( https://medium.com/@yujia_jo/2016-jiangsu-gaokao-national-hi... ), it seems like the examination really tests for the ability to do math and problem solve under fairly heavy time pressure (150 minutes total for all questions if you are in the science stream).

This honestly looks perfectly reasonable to me. It's obviously far harder than the SAT math section (which isn't saying much since SAT math is a bit of a joke), but the questions look completely fair and not at all like they're trying to trick or screw the student.

Makes the comment upthread that started this come across as just more racist prejudices about China, unless the commenter has something to back up their claim.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#779

Post by lightup »

wkrause wrote: post #622
lightup wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He applied to [redacted] State, Rice, UNC, Duke, and U of MN - Twin Cities. Accepted at [redacted] State (they have a formula for everyone). He also got their highest out of state "scholarship" - which is more like a break on out of state tuition - no reciprocity with MN. No word from Duke yet but that probably won't happen either. Complete disaster for his future and really a shot to his otherwise happy and optimist…

I can only imagine how upsetting this must be for you and your family. I just hope that after you’ve had some time to process, that your son finds a way forward that brings him closer to the future he wants for himself. Just a bit of unsolicited advice from an internet stranger, but describing the situation as a “complete disaster for his future”, even if not expressed directly to your son, runs the risk of becoming…

Thanks for the thoughtful suggestions. We're mainly pissed and disgusted. Appreciate your comment though. He's an optimistic person by nature so he's already moved on.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#780

Post by linksnapzz »

orzig wrote: post #630
linksnapzz wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you recast your civilization as simply the sum total of the economic activity generated by fungible worker-units, that's the sort of thing you get. A giant. somewhat dilapidated luxury shopping mall with a military attached.

There are a lot of negative things that one can imply about America, so I'm surprised that you reached for 'boring'. I don't even know what source to cite, but it seems self-evident that Americans care passionately about causes besides economic efficiency, for better or worse. Trying to find some objective ground for discussion, I'll take the bait on your specific analogy: Americans are spending progressively less ti…

I didn't mean to imply boring; don't know how you got that. It's more of a metaphor.
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