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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#771

Post by swader999 »

YZF wrote: post #638
version_five wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think at some level most people know this, certainly Trudeau. But it's much easier to get what you want by pushing the narrative that these are racist, conspiracy theorists who think that vaccines have microchips or whatever other stuff gullible canadians actually believe people think. In my province, we have to show our "vaccine pass" to go to the liquor store, the hardware store, I don't know what else, I dont go…

At least some were flying confederate flags... Well, in my province it's not a problem. There you prove point #1, this is not a federal issue. What province are you in? In my province leaders aren't pushing tighter restrictions. It doesn't matter what your grievances are, you don't get to park your truck in the middle of the street and break the law. Not in this country. Whether they "right" or "wrong" doesn't even f…

The Confederate flag was carried by one person completely covered and anonymous. The flag was brand new, still creased from the packaging. Trudeau's personal photographer was photographed following this person while taking pictures. There's several videos of many people in the protest harassing this person until they are forced to leave.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#772

Post by [deleted] »

b112 wrote: post #722
Tiktaalik wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omicron may be "mild" to healthy, vaccinated people, but it's a serious, deadly health threat to the unvaccinated elderly. Accordingly places where transmission is likely (eg. a small intimate restaurant) are serious and potentially deadly health risks to the elderly, unvaccinated part of the population. So long as our hospitals are overwhelmed (as they currently are) it's a very bad idea to open up these high transm…

This is a strange comment to me. In all provinces, the elderly were the very first to get vaccinated. First. First to get second vaccinations, and for a long time, the only group allowed to even get a third shot. There are no unvaccinated elderly people running around, unless they insist on not being vaccinated. In such cases, that's their choice, and no one should take additional precautions for those opting out. Yo…

[deleted]

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#773

Post by [deleted] »

dmix wrote: post #566
airmailspecial wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said he has invoked the Emergencies Act as a “last resort” to bolster the police response to convoy demonstrators and to “bring the situation fully under control.” What was the "first resort"? Trudeau isn't even willing to speak with the protesters. >There is still no indication Trudeau is willing to sit down or speak to convoy participants. He said he doesn’t regret describing those t…

So he's tried nothing and it's not working?

[deleted]

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#774

Post by JamisonM »

Sophistifunk wrote: post #712
JamisonM wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their stated demands are the dissolution of the current democratically elected government, they've conducted educational seminars about the dangers of vaccination full of outlandishly false information. Anyone can believe anything they like but none are required to be so credulous as to believe that the protests are simply about vaccine mandates given the large quantity of published evidence that the organizers and p…

> dissolution of the current democratically elected government Basically means "a no-confidence vote"

I was very generous in my language here, they are actually asking for some extra-constitutional remedy involving "citizen committees" governing the country.

It would be much more reasonable for them to be simply demanding the normal resignation of the government and new elections, but we just had an election, so I presume they are well aware of the fact that the result would not be favourable to their goals.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#775

Post by chernevik »

tw600040 wrote: post #436

When protests were happening in India this is what Trudeau had to say: "Let me remind you, Canada will always be there to defend the rights of peaceful protesters. We believe in the process of dialogue. We’ve reached out through multiple means to the Indian authorities to highlight our concerns. This is a moment for all of us to pull together,"Justin Trudeau said. https://indianexpress.com/article/india/situation-is-…

They weren't protesting _him_, that's entirely different.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#776

Post by mdorazio »

defaultname wrote: post #425
tdfx wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you try to force your political will through force [...] you have crossed a line and need to be reigned in Like forcing people out of their job for refusing a vaccine? Disclaimer: I'm vaccinated and I encourage everyone to do it. But no one should have to under threat to their livelihood, especially given the absurd logical inconsistencies of the mandate rules.

> Like forcing people out of their job for refusing a vaccine? Before vaccination was politicized in the US ( bizarrely , I must say, through mechanisms that I find absolutely baffling), many jobs had mandatory vaccinations. Most healthcare setting have mandatory yearly flu vaccinations, for instance. The military has a whole plethora of mandatory vaccinations, including some pretty crazy ones. And of course schools,…

Here's the why: all of those vaccination requirements are known to people before they enter the job/school/military. That is wholly different from being in a profession and then one day being told you have to get vaccinated or get fired.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#777

Post by abstract_put »

st00 wrote: post #622
mrtksn wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Don't be daft. The vaccine mandate proposes a false choice: take the vaccine and carry on, or don't take the vaccine and lose your income, tenure, and status. In effect you become marginalized on the basis of a choice about your health. In Canada, it is contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (a document whose status is equivalent to Canada's constitution) to discriminate against a person on those grounds.

> it is contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms

As far as I'm aware, an individual's rights to "life, liberty and security of the person" are not absolute. Whether it is a violation of the charter is a balance between the impact of the limitation (e.g. vaccine passport) vs. the impact of not imposing the limitation (e.g. higher ICU counts or whatever). The more arbitrary or severe the limitation, the more risk must be mitigated to justify the limitation.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#778

Post by lowkey »

sangnoir wrote: post #510
colechristensen wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Economic harm" is a really weak criterion all around for restricting protest rights and one ripe for abuse. I'm not sure if this is the only impact that a line should be drawn at all. "Public safety" is a good one, you're free to protest but there has to be adequate access for emergency services to get to people in need. "No significant destruction" is a good one, not just making a mess in the streets but when your…

> No significant destruction" is a good one, not just making a mess in the streets but when your movement starts actively destroying property, looting, etc This one is also ripe for abuse - outside forces have been using agents provocateurs for centuries, often undercover cops.

Notably the Canadian government has numerous examples of employing agents provocateurs, enough examples that there is a section of the Wikipedia article dedicated to examples from the Canadian government. [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur#Canada

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#779

Post by gammarator »

908B64B197 wrote: post #751
sdsaga12 wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appear to have rate-limited from editing that comment after double clicking on mobile, but this is what I was going to add: Edit: As I note in the linked comment, this channel is openly supportive of the protests. As I also write there, a quick YouTube search will yield a large variety of other sources. The important thing is finding sources with long and unedited footage. As Jacques Ellul observed, "propaganda cea…

Interesting you are getting rate-limited for showing this.

I get rate limited on mobile all the time. It doesn’t mean anything.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#780

Post by swader999 »

sul_tasto wrote: post #588
sherry-sherry wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion is not in any way comparable with this issue. Do not try and force some 'common ground' argument where is isn't one.

It seems to me both pro-choice advocates and Canadian truckers are saying, “Get your laws off my body.” The idea that a person belongs to herself or himself is fundamental to both arguments.

Yes, and where there's risk, there needs to be informed consent. Manipulation of trial data, collusion to censor, deplatforming and controlled media clearly limit informed consent.
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