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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#771

Post by jhayward »

rootusrootus wrote: post #401
zacharytelschow wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's apply that logic to everything, then, and see how it works out. You're fat or obese and have health outcomes stemming from those choices? Enjoy your heart attack, fatty. You get injured doing something "non-essential?" Your mountain bike accident sounds like your problem. You're a smoker and get lung cancer? Sorry, no treatment is available for you. You don't get to dictate the health choices of others. And if…

I don't support denying healthcare based on choices. But I heard that some hospitals in Texas have started using it during triage. And there is certainly precedent for that. E.g. try getting a transplant if you are still engaging in the behavior that caused you to need one in the first place. So if a hospital has only one bed available and two people to take it, one of whom is vaccinated experiencing a severe breakth…

> some hospitals in Texas have started using it during triage

This is false. The "leaked" internal discussion document has been repudiated by its author, and the group of hospitals discussing it.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#772

Post by seoaeu »

34679 wrote: post #744
seoaeu wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those could also be long term side effects of covid . A double digit percentage of people who catch the disease end up in the hospital soon after infection compared to fraction of a fraction of a percent of vaccine recipients in the time after they get the shot. Your priors have to be absolutely outrageous if based on the currently available data you think the risks are even within an order of magnitude.

3.2 per 100,000 is not "a double digit percentage". https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628...

A 0.0032% hospitalization rate doesn't pass the smell test. That's hundreds of times less than the reported fatality rate!

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#773

Post by lokar »

megous wrote: post #761

There are people with long term issues starting right after vaccination. Not safety issues, which everyone and their dog studies, just multi-month constant pain that will not kill you but just disables you from your normal life for months, that is not solvable by regular NSAIDs, as usual, and that you'll get no compensation for from anyone. I'm just interested in how common this is after vaccination, and perhaps when…

When I got vaccinated I started getting surveys on my condition from the CDC. Daily at first, then weekly and monthly

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#774

Post by thereddaikon »

kristjansson wrote: post #755
015a wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its totally healthy to both believe that the vaccine makes sense for you, and still respect, love, include, and accomodate people who decide it isn't right for them. We're all different, and the world is very complicated; that's what makes life so awesome.

That's a nice sentiment[1], but why couch it in such an odd construction? "I took it, but here's a bunch of reasons not to" doesn't come across as an argument for equanimity and individual decision making, it comes across as an argument not to take it. [1]: though 'include' carries a _lot_ of potential interpretations there :)

Its a common turn of phrase in modern English. Everyone talks like that. I know its in vogue right now to assume everyone who doesn't agree with you is a bot or paid shill for some agenda seeking group, and maybe many of them are. But not everyone. People really do talk this way in every day conversation.

As for mine. I got my first shot in December. Probably one of the first in my area. Got second 2 weeks after. I think everyone should get it as soon as they are comfortable with doing so. There is such a thing as being unreasonably suspicious and antivaxxers fall into that pretty easily but there is nothing inherently wrong with wanting more than emergency approval. Furthermore, private companies can definitely make it a term of employment but I am strongly against the government requiring it. I am a firm believer that everyone has the right to be a dumbass.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#775

Post by neogodless »

zacharytelschow wrote: post #358
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities would have burned over it. I don't like "Imagine x doing y" arguments because it makes us insert our own biases on a hypothetical scenario that isn't the current reality.

That hypothetical scenario is current reality for just under half the country.

I may be misunderstanding your meaning, but I think you mean that half of the country does not like Biden, and Biden is requiring everyone to get the vaccine?

Is that happening? I cannot find any federal law of any kind (let alone stemming from the oval office) requiring individuals to get the vaccine.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#776

Post by ssully »

pokstad wrote: post #446
0xB31B1B wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we don't require anyone to take the vaccine, and we will never require anyone to take the vaccine. What we should and will do is restrict what someone who is not vaccinated can do to limit the harm they will cause to others. No one is going to bang down your door and force a vaccine into your arm, but if you do not want to get vaccinated you will need to change your life because you will be restricted from participat…

Power to tax is the power to destroy. The power to exclude is the power to coerce. Society is coercing people into taking the vaccine by requiring it for any activities outside the home. Want to go to the grocery store? Get a vaccine or wear a mask. Want to go to Disneyland? Get a vaccine or wear a mask. Want to attend a conference? Get a vaccine or take a test and wear a mask. The mask and testing mandates are an ef…

Your post sounds pretty good, especially when you don't conclude on what we are allowing by "letting them be", which is to continue the spread of a deadly disease.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#777

Post by criticaltinker »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #715
kristjansson wrote: post #709

All of these comments following the pattern "I'm vaccinated but [insert vaccine hesitancy content here]" sound quite a lot like the "I'm a democrat but [insert pro-trump content]" comments that abounded in the last cycle. I don't know what to make of it. Is this a rhetorical strategy that really works? A tic of people experiencing cognitive dissonance?

I think it's "please don't reflexively ignore the opinion that I am about to express, which is the kind of opinion that people on the other side reflexively ignore".

Yes this is exactly why people are prefacing their comments with such details, because after participating in enough HN discussions on topics like these you'll quickly realize how reflexive people can be - down-voting and flagging without any charitable interpretation or engaging in nuanced and informed responses that tease out the important themes of the discussion.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#778

Post by rafaelm »

s0rce wrote: post #762
xiphias2 wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I now travel to the US and pay for one if I want as a non-US resident? So far that was impossible.

Undocumented people have been able to get the vaccine in California without paying so you can get it and don't need to pay.

Can confirm, lots of people from my country have been traveling to Miami to get the shot. Some go for 10 days to get the Johnson shot (single dose), because they can't/don't want to spend a month for the two doses.

According to what I've heard, you can just walk into any Walgreens/pharmacy to get it, without paying or getting an ID check.

Not sure how legal that is though. I understand that those should be for tax-paying citizens.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#779

Post by gfodor »

ceejayoz wrote: post #12
giantg2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...instead find a new reason not to get it." Or continue an existing reason: "Information is not yet available about potential long-term health outcomes."

Of course, we don't have much info on the long-term health outcomes of getting COVID , either. It's like worrying about the long-term impact of breathing fire extinguisher powder while being engulfed by flames.

If COVID was like getting engulfed by flames for children, you can be damn sure we'd be jabbing them. Why aren't we? Because it's way more context sensitive than the analogy permits, so it's a particularly useless analogy.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#780

Post by clawlor »

megous wrote: post #761

There are people with long term issues starting right after vaccination. Not safety issues, which everyone and their dog studies, just multi-month constant pain that will not kill you but just disables you from your normal life for months, that is not solvable by regular NSAIDs, as usual, and that you'll get no compensation for from anyone. I'm just interested in how common this is after vaccination, and perhaps when…

> why not just give every 5th person vaccinated in some large center a link and a code to enter observed side effects after 1 day, 3 days, week, and a month, and then maybe 3 months after into some website.

The CDC ran such a study. IDK about results, or how many people participated.

https://vsafe.cdc.gov/en/

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