Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity' • Hacker News Board

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#771

Post by azeirah » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

cnity wrote: post #323

jimworm wrote: post #257

For all the carbon capture that the Devonian/Carboniferous period did over 100 million years, humanity undid a large part of it in 150 or so years. And now to preserve human civilisation in some form, the most direct way is probably to rebuild that carbon sink within a much shorter time. Much shorter than 150 years, not 100 million. Current carbon emissions are over 10 billion tonnes per year, so the capture speed wi…

In theory, a sink large enough to bring the Earth back to carbon neutral would be possible if the Sahara were reforested[0]: > The team's calculations suggest the forested deserts could draw down around 8bn tonnes of carbon a year, about the same as emitted from fossil fuels and deforestation today. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2009/nov/04/forests-d... Edit: > if insoluble carbonates could be synthesised fr…

According to a video I watched, reforesting the sahara comes with its own huge problems. Dust clouds from the sahara travel the atlantic to the Amazon rain forest, where it allegedly plays an important role in sustaining the Amazon.

In short, green Sahara would turn the Amazon Rainforest in the new Sahara. And that will then have its own massive implications etc...

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#772

Post by IngoBlechschmid » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

rebuilder wrote: post #697

habosa wrote: post #621

Just. Tax. It. We have warmed the earth because we love comfort and money. We will never stop loving those things. So instead let's use the same systems to fix this (or at least slow things down). As an individual my largest carbon impact is air travel. I like to go places, it's one of the main things I work to afford. Every single plane ticket I take should have a tax which is used to offset or capture the carbon em…

The problem is, just taxing CO2 emissions doesn't let you control who gets hit by the price increases. It could very well lead to increases in food and transportation costs that would be disproportionately burdensome to the poorest part of the population. Raising the cost of those items is politically very unpopular since it tends to cause unrest. So I think what we'll get instead is some complex system of first taxi…

The earnings of the CO2 tax could be equally distributed to all citizens on a monthly basis. That way, while consumer prices would increase, all those citizens who contribute below average to the country's CO2 emissions (and those are the vast majority and especially includes people who are poor) would, in sum, have more money available than before.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#773

Post by hbscharp » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

The Energy Transition Show podcast is a resource that should receive more attention. It is subscription based, but a free-as-in-beer "best of" episode was released recently.

https://xenetwork.org/ets/episodes/episode-151-best-of-ets/

I shared many of the attitudes popular on HN regarding technology and climate change. ETS has convinced me that:

1. We don’t need to utilize nuclear power to account for the intermittency of solar and wind.

2. Carbon capture and storage technology doesn't need to exist in order achieve decarbonization.

I used to despair about climate change. I'm still quite worried about displacing the centralized incumbent interests. This podcast and its associated resources has gotten me off the couch and thinking about how to apply myself to be part of the solution.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#774

Post by skyfaller » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

wutbrodo wrote: post #599

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

> Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program Unfortunately, getting this proposed, passed without mutilation, and enforced is also a collective action problem. Though I agree with your implied point that decentralized solutions should be the baseline, especially as they don…

I used to think as you do about nuclear, but I've become convinced that old nuclear technology is too expensive to compete with renewables OR fossil fuels, and new nuclear technology cannot scale up enough to matter before 2050 (when the worst effects of climate change will either have been averted or made inevitable).

- https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/7/11/1755564...

- https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201005112141.h...

I still absolutely believe it is worth investing in nuclear just in case I'm wrong, and it would be nice to explore the universe later using e.g. cold fusion if our civilization survives this crisis, but I do not think we should rely on or expect nuclear power to make any significant contribution to addressing the climate crisis on the very tight timeline necessary.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#775

Post by notabee » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #647

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

> I'm past hoping for people to do the right things en masse. Getting people behind goals with long timelines is pretty much impossible. As you said, the pandemic demonstrated (and continues to demonstrate) how we behave and think. > Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology No. Sorry. You are buying into propaganda. Put simply: We (humanity) cannot d…

1. Humans have managed to fundamentally alter the global climate on a timescale of about 150 years.

2. Humans are incapable of fundamentally altering the climate on any significant scale compared to natural processes.

Pick one.

Yes, feedbacks can outpace what we're already emitting. Yes, we're in a dire situation that is going to take radical innovation and a huge surplus of zero carbon energy to basically reverse the exothermic process we used to burn millions of years of stored carbon with an endothermic process to draw it back down. But this doomer stuff isn't helpful. Anything we do to mitigate the rise of greenhouse gases, even if it is not a complete reversal (that's pretty much off the table) will give us time to innovate and change the outcome from extinction-level catastrophic to merely a drastic change in our way of life. Every bit counts. Trees, BECCs, direct air carbon capture, lowering emissions, albedo alteration, etc. The sad thing is I don't think you've researched that thoroughly, you're only got the parade of some scary facts. Indulging in overwhelming doom is just another emotional coping strategy to avoid responsibility, the same as outright denial.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#776

Post by i_haz_rabies » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

adolph wrote: post #569

agumonkey wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point, it's blurry From the top of my head, most cited ones are Concrete production Heating / cooling (unless designed to be physically smart) Beef production Worldwide transportation (fruits all year long) Cars If you eat a Mediterranean die, move by foot or bike and have a well insulated house with no AC you're good

Why pick on AC? How about adding no heat?

Heat is necessary, AC is not necessary (I realize this is not entirely true, but I think it's fair to say a lot more people would die without heat than without AC).

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#777

Post by diego_moita » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

kumarvvr wrote: post #488

bko wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emiss…

> The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia Developed nations have polluted the planet for decades, with highest rates of energy consumption per capita. They have failed to build systems and processess that enables sustainable living. They have lived their excess and now lecture the world that their "90% of emissions are from consumption" One g…

Ah, the favourite argument in every political discussion: "It's their fault, not mine".

That certainly will work, since developing nations will not suffer anything from climate disaster, right? /s

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#778

Post by ErikVandeWater » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

oakfr wrote: post #466

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Interestingly, covid seems to have taught me the opposite. When covid hit, the time-to-market of a new vaccine was 10-15 years. The collective action of governments divided this number literally by ten. Despite all the bad words we've heard about bad policies and mistakes done by governments, I think we should be proud of what humankind has achieved during covid (granted, some governments have done and still do very…

The efficacy of the vaccines is really being called into question though. Gibraltar and Iceland are getting more cases after being 99 and 75% respectively. Iceland is actually getting record cases.

The government did very little to protect the most vulnerable and chose actions that massively disrupted people's lives. Shutting down schools was probably the most egregious of the many mistakes.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#779

Post by aww_dang » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

ur-whale wrote: post #96

Every one is focused on climate change. But climate change is just a symptom, and absolutely not the disease. No one seems to want to discuss or even mention the actual root cause of climate change, namely: there are simply too many people on the planet. Go back to less than 1B human on planet earth, and climate change will stop being a problem in a heartbeat. But the implications of such a drastic population decreas…

You can also turn the logic around with this. Many of the globalist institutions promoting climate apocalypse have a historical background in 'population control'. Globalists do openly discuss limiting population growth. What is difficult to discuss is the link between eugenicist population control schemes and the climate scare.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#780

Post by f6v » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

justsid wrote: post #656

f6v wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side Europe is so taxed I can't even fart without paying to the government. Don't get me wrong, I get a lot for what I pay, but it's borderline too much.

Tough luck everyone, OP said he already pays too many taxes, so unfortunately climate action has to go on the back burner. But good news, at least while we are still alive he won’t feel like the government is taking took much.

For example, even if the greens get majority in Germany, they'll be in a very tough spot. Their core electorate will think they're underdelivering. But their proposed measures won't be accepted by others.