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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

annehelen.substack.com

771–780 of 1001 posts

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#771
post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and raising the minimum wage is an attempt to control that by putting the costs back on the employer.

Who will simply either pass the costs along to the consumer, or shut down.

That seems fine no?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#772
post #652
post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If they honestly can't afford to pay a living wage It's not logical to kill businesses by arbitrarily raising the minimum wage. Do you think the people they employ are better off not working at all? These people may not have a decent enough salary, but they get to work as opposed to staying at home and degenerate (mentally and physically). I always thought the better solution is to help them financially in other way…

The government giving more to minimum wage workers instead of raising minimum wage feels like a roundabout way to subsidize businesses that don’t way living wages.

That's exactly how it works in many european countries, especially the ones without a legal minimum wage (Austria for example), so people working "slave" gig jobs (cleaners, delivery, construction and hospitality workers, etc.) where if they earn below a certain "livable' threshold, get various tax credits, subsidies and benefits from the government to reach that "livable" threshold, which, while it sounds good, it creates a perverse incentive where employees arrange with the employer to be paid as little on paper as possible to still qualify for the government subsidies and then get paid the rest under the table (tipping is expected here for this reason) which just moves the burden from the employers of paying a livable wage to the customers and to the taxpayers which are basically subsidizing their business.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#773
post #548

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

A 10% margin also often doesn't tell the whole story of how they make their money. Nearly since its inception, a substantial portion of McDonald's long term profit came from the appreciation of the real estate the stores were built on. Operating a business on it just made it cash flow positive during the holding period. So it was essentially a REIT that happened to operate a fast food chain. Even for many mom-and-pop…

This is why its hard to start a restaurant. You need to be rich enough to own the land.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still no specifics.

As I said, first the imperialism would stop. No more military threats, no more WTO enforcing unfair rules, forgiving all IMF loans, etc. That would allow trade to no longer be based such an extreme difference in the price of labour, so the victim countries could retain a majority of the value of their labour. By no longer losing value to profits at every step of production and distribution, consumer prices wouldn’t h…

> That would allow trade to no longer be based such an extreme difference in the price of labour

That doesn't make sense. The entire reason the WTO was interested in China (and any other poor country) was because they had cheap labor. It's not like the WTO is depressing wages.

>By no longer losing value to profits at every step of production and distribution, consumer prices wouldn’t have to increase

Wait, we pay everyone more but we don't have to pay for production and distribution?

>Merely dismantling the US army would vastly reduce global carbon emissions. Building high density housing, public transportation, universal healthcare, public utilities, etc. would further reduce the US’s majority contributions.

I agree but it's completely non-sequitar.

> Countries that were kept poor for centuries could be gifted low-carbon energy sources as part of reparations, so as to not need to emit carbon to develop.

Again, non-sequitar but what are these countries going to do with some solar panels? They're dirt poor. You might as well buy them some air pods.

> A lot can be done once the oppressor countries stop constantly extracting value for a few individuals.

It's not a zero sum game. Richer countries do extract value from poorer countries but the poorer countries also extract value from the richer countries. Just because the majority of the advantage comes from the richer country doesn't mean the poorer country is losing, they just win much less.

In general, you're making a lot of points about globalism that I generally agree are problems but you're offering no solutions past stop doing the bad thing and everything will be good. I don't care about labels of imperialism, oppressors or communist, I care what actually can be done in the real world to make the world work better. Keep in mind that while China is sort if at odds with the WTO, it's not because they don't think it's ethical, they don't like it because it's not them.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#775
post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tweak tax rates until it balances out. that just makes the whole system inefficient - the rich pay a bunch of taxes, then try to obtain all of those benefits for having paid those taxes to try even it back out. So why not just tax less, and let them spend the money directly?

I’d rather an inefficient system than one with holes in it. Better someone getting aid who doesn’t need it than someone not getting aid who does need it.

Doesn’t this just become a mini-UBI for food budgets?

That could be pretty interesting.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#776
post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think needing to survive forces or keeping your human dignity forces you to find a job? That's the way I see it.

That job might not exist at all if the government mandates your wage to be higher than the value of your labor.

I think something is missing from this equation, which is the balancing act. The value of labor is dynamic, it depends what people are willing to pay, and what is the price of other costs.

How I see it, labor cost have been cut, while rent has gone up and prices have gone down.

If you increased minimum wage, it would put pressure on prices to go up and rent to go down, both would increase the value of the labor itself.

I think this whole dynamic is way way harder to model and predict how it'll play out then everyone makes it out to be. None of people's simple projection account for it all. Even economists with fancy models backed by simulations, math, and all that can't figure out the real outcome and often disagree with one another on what would happen.

It's not as easy as saying, half the restaurants are going to shut down, and leave empty all those commercial space. What happens next? Maybe some customers start to be willing to pay even more to get back some of the great restaurants they lost, or their proximity to them. Maybe landlords have to lower their rent for something else to fill in the vacancy, etc. Maybe everyone is happy with only half of the restaurants remaining, and each of those restaurant is making twice as much now allowing them to hire more staff and pay even higher. There's a lot of balancing act that could happen.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#777
post #722
post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if someone else is willing to work for those wages (they don’t really need the income or have minimal expenses) you’d tell them “tough, it’s illegal to work for that wage now”?

That question never happens in places with a minimum wage. What you can do is support your employer by showing up early and/or helping out a few extra hours after the shift. Nothing in writing or by force.

As an employer you’d be crazy to do that. Nothing would stop that employee from turning around and demanding back wages.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#778
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but the job market is not a free market, because not getting a job is existential for those seeking the job, while the company can usually just survive when a position is not filled for a certain time. This means to make this a free market many nations did the reasonable thing and introduced measures like minimum wages and unemployment benefits. This way when you loose your job the balance of power evens out a l…

> Yeah but the job market is not a free market, because not getting a job is existential for those seeking the job, while the company can usually just survive when a position is not filled for a certain time. This is, to begin with, not true. It's common for small businesses to be operating at the margin. If you don't have someone making the sandwiches then you don't have revenue and you still have rent and utilities…

> You can pick the one that pays the most.

Oh sweet summer child. When you are in debt and struggle to survive on a day to day basis, time is your enemy You cannot afford not to take a job. And if you are lucky enough to be able afford it today, you might not tomorrow.

Another thing: many people need more than one job as it is now. Guess what: if you pay people a decent living wage more people can actually get jobs, because less people have to do two or more. If your business is so inefficient it can't support minimum wage labor, it was doomed to fail before. Again: even McDonalds manages to pay minimum wages in Europe and their prices are roughly comparable. You are being gaslighted by the people profiting from that modern form of slavery.

you are right in recognizing that living costs are an issue as well, and they are an issue in many big cities. The known solution for this issue is publically owned housing which you shouldn't put into their own districts (thus creating ghettos) but mix them in throughout the city (Vienna's "Gemeindebau" is a good example for this, Vienna repeatedly got the title "City most worth living in" over the past decades). Don't only put poor people into these houses, make them decent and make them something people want to live in. Make them cheaper to rent than other flats (this way the rents in the surrounding areas cannot go up so fast). But most importantly: this must be done from the public side — nobody else in control has the incentive to act in ways that lower rents.

Aside from all this, what the US really needs to do is to look at all the other countries that are comparable to the area you are living in and wonder why they are doing so well without all the doomsday scenarios your politicians make tou believe (both socially and economically). Whenever I talk to US citizens about this they are either completely delusioned ("I live in an oligarchy") or they pretend their problems are so unique the rest of the industrialized world never had to deal with comparable things. "Who knows, maybe it cannot be solved at all", they say, while it was solved literally one country over since half a century ago.

That's like wondering whether man will ever be able to move faster than a horse, while your neighbouring country has airplaines they use on a daily basis.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exploitation that ultimately helped lift a billion people out of poverty in China. A socialist US would probably, like most prior countries that called themselves socialist, be a poor, oppressive hellhole.

Poverty has decreased in China in spite of US imperialism, not because of it. Most notably, poor capitalist countries have had poverty increase in the past several decades instead. All countries that have had a successful socialist revolution so far were oppressed impoverished ones. They all then went on to develop very quickly, in spite of constant attack from the imperialist countries. An already-developed former i…

China lifted itself out of poverty when it became a capitalist, dictatorial oligarchy.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#780
post #691
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it. McDonalds pays minimum wages in most european nations, yet their menu isnt that much more expensive than in the US. Maybe they have a slimmer margin over here, but they are still profitable. That implies that the model is (in principle) just alright, but there are financial flows that will have to change in the US. Of course you don't like to pay more for the labor you use to generate profit — ideally…

Their menu may not appear much cheaper in the US, but McDonalds is much more aggressive with price discrimination here. You won't find the same promotions, value menu, and coupons in Europe.

There is generally not a big coupon culture in Europe. Most people don't bother wasting their time. People with a money problem usually collect bottles for recycling purposes.
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