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Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#771

Post by Aeolun »

croes wrote: post #763
ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

The problem here is that private companies are doing something that only democratically legitimized state authorities should be doing, deciding what is allowed or not allowed. Otherwise we are always dependent on the good will of the companies without democratic control.

If the companies do not do it themselves, the state will eventually start doing it. If they go too far, the state will eventually ban them from doing that.

Just the system working as intended I think?

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#772

Post by eganist »

croes wrote: post #763
ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

The problem here is that private companies are doing something that only democratically legitimized state authorities should be doing, deciding what is allowed or not allowed. Otherwise we are always dependent on the good will of the companies without democratic control.

> The problem here is that private companies are doing something that only democratically legitimized state authorities should be doing, deciding what is allowed or not allowed.

So that I understand: on what grounds are such companies deciding what's allowed or not allowed for all people? As best as I can tell, they're deciding what's allowed or not allowed on their own platforms.

And a point I've made elsewhere but I'll repeat here: Parler might've exposed itself to FOSTA/SESTA by insisting on not moderating, and as such, while AAPL/AMZN/GOOG deplatformed Parler with violence as cause, it's also somewhat likely that gaining awareness of the lack of FOSTA/SESTA compliance may have forced their hand. (I'll invite an attorney to keep me honest here - I'm not one.)

I keep pointing this out because, of course, FOSTA/SESTA were passed in the last few years.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#773

Post by spicyramen »

I want to see this also as a geopolitical move. We see online platforms growing, and for US products the natural growth is the following: US, Europe and Australia, then Asia, Africa and Latinamerica. What is missing? China the crown jewel. Is this move anti-Trump a way to set a precedent that Big Tech is pro China. Let's don't forget the ties of Apple and Facebook there and the need to access that market.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#774

Post by [deleted] »

oliv__ wrote: post #628

I'm having a real hard time understanding how all the comments in the thread are in favor of this. I mean, even if you disagree with the idea of Parler, how can one willingly support this kind of censorship? "First they came for the XYZ and I didn't care because I wasn't XYZ, then they came for the ..., and then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me"

[deleted]

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#775

Post by chrischen »

croes wrote: post #763
ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

The problem here is that private companies are doing something that only democratically legitimized state authorities should be doing, deciding what is allowed or not allowed. Otherwise we are always dependent on the good will of the companies without democratic control.

Freedom of speech means that here is no monopolistic power (such as the government) that has final say on restricting speech. However, it doesn't mean that you, as a private citizen or free-market-participant, have to aid and abet all speech that is directed at you. If someone tells me the Earth as flat, I do not have to give his ideas equal weight if I do not believe they deserve it, and I should not be compelled to help him espouse his beliefs either.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#776

Post by paulddraper »

jp57 wrote: post #675

I'm distressed and saddened at how many of the free speech proponents on HN are treating the events of January 6 as if it was just another protest and not an existential threat to the republic. The president's followers said for weeks that "the storm" was coming Jan 6. Nobody took them seriously. Look what happened. The president and his lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, and other followers incited it. Yes the execution of the…

> free speech proponents on HN are treating the events of January 6 as if it was just another protest and not an existential threat to the republic.

Let me tell you a little story:

On February 27, 1933 communist Marinus van der Lubbe set fire to the Reichstag, the home of the German parliament. He and four communist leaders were arrested.

The event supported the earlier claims of the National Socialist Workers Party, that Germany was on the verge of a communist revolution and only majority by them could stop it.

At the urging of Chancellor Adolf Hitler, President Paul von Hidenburg immediately issued the Reichstag Fire Decree, suspending civil liberties such as freedom speech, freedom of the press, public assembly, and the secrecy of the post and telephone.

The government arrested large numbers of communists, including members of parliament.

In their absence, the Nazis and their allies, the Germany National People's Party, achieved a majority in the legislature. Exactly one month after the Reichstag fire, they passed the Enabling Act to help them against the seditious communists by giving the Chancellor the power to pass laws without parliamentary approval.

Soon after, President Hindenburg died and the President's office was merged with that of the Chancellor Hitler, making Hitler the head of state and the executive, or "Führer und Reichskanzler."

But......the important thing is that they successfully addressed the insurrectionists' attack on the Capitol!

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#777

Post by diveanon »

They should ban gay wedding cakes along with Parler, then conservatives would be fine with this right?

Germany decided a long time ago that free speech has limits, if you tolerate intolerance it leads to fascism. History has proved that several times.

Personally I would love to hear what is going on behind the scenes at Parler from a devops perspective.

Were they just running ec2? In which case leasing a data center will be inconvenient but manageable.

If they were using more of the managed products then good riddance.

I'm curious if the devs at Parler will put it on their resumes when looking for a new job.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#778

Post by Rapzid »

croes wrote: post #763
ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

The problem here is that private companies are doing something that only democratically legitimized state authorities should be doing, deciding what is allowed or not allowed. Otherwise we are always dependent on the good will of the companies without democratic control.

> only democratically legitimized state authorities should be doing, deciding what is allowed or not allowed

Woah, what?! No, this is entirely antithetical to "freedom of speech". The government should absolutely NOT be determining what is and is not allowed speech.

> Otherwise we are always dependent on the good will of the companies without democratic control

The market will decide right? Companies are made up of individuals. Their customers are as well. The past 30 years is evidence of that.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#779

Post by malwarebytess »

I feels so conflicted about this kind of deplatforming. I find the people ignorant and topics discussed there of little value. It's mostly just actual lies, misunderstandings, blatant propaganda, stupidity, circlejerking, echo chambers. It's shit, to be blunt. I find it endlessly annoying.

But I sorta think they should be able to have their space? I don't like the way corporations and governments build these huge marketplaces, make them more and more restrictive such that no one can really get huge market-share without them and then they start curating (censoring). I understand why they do it: image, ethics (lol), they can, network effects, control over product quality, increased community cohesion, customer comfort, "safety" (lol), legal (i don't buy this one) and so on. But it wouldn't be a problem if the internet remained decentralized...these big companies should never be in the position to have this power.

At a certain point you get so locked out that you can't even pay the bills anymore because even payment processors won't take your money!

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#780

Post by logicchains »

ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

>My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence or speech that discriminates against people for immutable characteristics of their person, both of which I know Parler harbors in abundance.

How do you feel about #killallmen on Twitter?

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