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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#771

Post by toprea »

kar1181 wrote: post #704
tdubhro1 wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also in the UK and I deleted WhatsApp 2 years ago when it became clear that Facebook intended to move in the direction of fuller integration (I deleted my Facebook account after 1 month of usage 10 years ago). However, I had to reinstall WhatsApp because all of my kid's sports activities and school updates are organised through WhatsApp groups and it is impossible to participate without WhatsApp. Much as I believ…

This is precisely the dilemma in a nutshell. You have a choice but it's a bit like voluntary solitary confinement. Especially during a lockdown.

Just thinking out loud here, as I was considering something like this.

I can also not give up the WhatsApp account due to the social pressure. What if I would use a second phone, a cheap one, used only for the whatsapp (and some other essential but privacy invasive apps). I would not have that second phone always with me, but it would provide me access to the social network I need without feeling tracked or providing more data than needed.

I do understand that this doesn't fix exactly the issue presented here, but I already assumed that whatsapp data was already in Facebook's hands one way or another. But I would limit the amount of information that WhatsApp can track about me by having this application on a phone which does not really represent my full actions as i don't have it with me.

Edit: Corrected some typos.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#772

Post by jannes »

sufehmi wrote: post #606
cranekam wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their infra is generating those encryption certificates, so WhatsApp can very well decode the message and store it for further processing. This is incorrect. The sender's device generates the key with which it encrypts outgoing messages. WhatsApp's infra cannot see the content of any messages sent. (Source: ex-WhatsApp employee)

3 years ago, my friend, an Indian fact-checker, showed me a screenshot of a WhatsApp screen, showing warning from WhatsApp that a message contains a dangerous link This (the warning) is only possible if WhatsApp can read your messages I'm guessing that they read your message on the app. So their claim (end-to-end encryption) is indeed true and correct. But their app can and indeed has been reading your messages, for…

Link previews are generated server-side, I think.

The app sends a request to a Facebook API for every link that you send/receive. Usually this returns the little image + text snippet that you see in the app, but obviously this could also return a message that the link is considered dangerous.

As a site owner you can probably see a request from a Facebook bot when a link to your site is shared on WhatsApp. (not sure how long they cache this)

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#773

Post by rutthenut »

ksec wrote: post #760
kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

Blame Carrier. Modern SMS could have been great, but Carrier didn't want to lose the however minimal revenue they had with SMS. ( Not every countries has unlimited SMS across all Network and across the world ) Or Blame MSN, the Instant Messenger, when Microsoft refuse to admit defeat to the Smartphone platform. So WhatsApp took over in EU ( I believe iMessages or SMS is still popular in France ), UK, SEA, Brazil, Hon…

Carriers now looking to RCS as the messenger alternative, but if they price it like MMS, they will kill it. To do it cheaper, they have to give a large chunk of the service to Google, which gives Google the data mining opportunities :(

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#774

Post by lucb1e »

dan-robertson wrote: post #649
hkt wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I recommend Delta Chat? It's an email client (with clever, seamless encryption based on gpg) with a WhatsApp style interface. There's a desktop client too. I've only ever managed to get one person to use it, but goodness it'd be nice to get rid of WhatsApp. Edit: URL https://delta.chat/

Note that gpg provides worse security from an encryption standpoint than signal/WhatsApp

Frankly, I don't even care if it uses end-to-end encryption at all if it's encrypted to my own server.

Of course, email goes between servers and then you definitely want to ensure the encryption is solid (it often isn't, so PGP is definitely good). I'm just saying that Wire/Signal/Threema/etc. having better encryption is in my opinion only important when you use Wire's/Signal's/Threema's servers. If you can and do host your own, especially if you host it at home, then in practice there is no difference.

Since most people don't do that, Signal/Wire/Threema/Matrix are of course the better options than PGP+email, but PGP+email is still an improvement over the status quo.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#775

Post by daemin »

anoncow wrote: post #445
frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

WhatsApp is a masterclass in network effects. You can no longer decide whether or not you want to use it. Because your employer uses it, you have no choice but to use it. The only thing that will disrupt this is if security concerns make companies come out and explicitly ask employees not to use WhatsApp and I don't see that happening any time soon.

If your employer insists on installing and using a specific application on a phone, ask them for a phone to use it on. Don't feel the need to install it onto your personal device.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

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Post by teekert »

Aachen wrote: post #739
teekert wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a family that are all on the same server, Nextcloud Talk is also nice and "relatively easy" to set up (and 0 effort when you already use Nextcloud). I am still desperately waiting on Talk being able to use the federation features of Nextcloud (so you can chat to users on other servers). That would increase my usage a lot, my parents are on another server (which admittedly also runs from my basement) and I have co…

As someone who doesn't use WhatsApp, thanks for mentioning WA and Signal are not very different and that Telegram has better UX. That matches what I thought, but I didn't know and I was a bit worried what I'd be signing my family up for when asking them to switch away from Telegram.

Yeah, Signal used to handle changing phones pretty poorly but that is sort of solved now (you can store your groups and phonebook in the cloud behind a pin). Other than that it is really nice. The desktop client is arguably better than WA's web solution, although I have run into non-syncing messages, but, you can use the desktop client with your phone off, which is a major + imho.

Honestly, Signal is just super high quality when you take into account how privacy focused it is, I could easily replace WA with Signal, apart from "the network effect".

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#777

Post by cesarb »

bibelo wrote: post #655

I was barely awake, and saw the popup this morning (I'm in EU) and with my sticky eyes, I couldn't see how I could send a message without accepting the popup So does anyone know if there's a way to revert the agreement?

For me, there was also a clearly labeled "not now" option right next to the "agree" button. I quickly clicked that "not now", option (I didn't have at that moment the time to review a pair of long documents), and now I have no idea how to make the popup show again (so I can read these documents). I hope this doesn't mean my account will be banned in a few weeks.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#779

Post by ddrdrck_ »

worldsayshi wrote: post #759
GuB-42 wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France, SMS is still the most common, even though it is declining. I think it is historic: we had cheap unlimited SMS plans before internet data plans were common. WhatsApp is popular but not a monopoly. Not really something to celebrate since its main "competitor" and #1 instant messenger app is Facebook Messenger. Skype and Discord are also significant, and I expect iMessage to be important too.

But with SMS group messaging is rather cumbersome no?

Yes, which is exactly why WhatsApp has replaced SMS : group messaging. People still use SMS for 1 to 1 conversation in France

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#780

Post by dbetteridge »

Atariman wrote: post #265

As a privacy concerned European, there's only one viable alternative: https://threema.ch/en/ It's open source and very secure: https://www.securemessagingapps.com/

'pay once, chat forever'

I don't see how thats tenable with anything that requires a hosted server to relay information.

Someone will need to pay for it going forward and if the users money runs out, what then?

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