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Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

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Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#771

Post by jlarocco »

jjeaff wrote: post #722
jlarocco wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you in principle, but disagree in practice. For every person who knows what they're doing and can trust themselves, there are 1000 who will install malware and other crap and end up at an Apple store getting it fixed, and they'll blame Apple instead of themselves.

You talk like this is some unique problem. This has been solved for a long time. Warranties have terms of service. If your car is under warranty and the engine fails due to a defect, warranty covers it. If your engine fails because you drove it into a river, then the warranty don't cover it and you'll pay out of pocket for repairs.

That's not a good analogy, though. What's the car equivalent of a ransomware app that pretends to be a video game?

And, now that I think about it, I don't even know what the equivalent of "driving into a river" would be, and that's as a software engineer who's been working with computers for 25 years.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#772

Post by nodamage »

woofie11 wrote: post #761
nodamage wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all antitrust violations require monopoly power, that is true. For example, price fixing is illegal even if the companies involved do not have monopoly power. However, several of the claims Epic made in their lawsuit do require proving that Apple has monopoly power, which is going to be a difficult argument with their current 46% market share.

Which ones? I only skimmed the case, but it looked like market power would suffice. In either case, the standard legal approach is to throw the kitchen sink of claims, to see which ones stick. Most claims get rejected by the courts, but if you have a few that work, it's enough. It also helps settle. If I have a dozen $10 million dollar claims, with a 5% chance of success each, a rational opponent will throw me $6 mil…

The claims of "unlawful monopoly maintenance" in particular. But you're right, I think their best chance of success is the tying claim between "iOS App Distribution" and "iOS In-App Payment Processing" which only requires market power.

I don't think Epic cares to settle here though, they have more than enough money to keep this suit going for the next decade.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#773

Post by throwaway2048 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #721
lenkite wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safety over Liberty - the motto of the world today. Kneel before the master!

Should we not have the liberty to choose a locked-down platform?

Should you have the liberty to sell yourself into slavery?

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#774

Post by fermienrico »

arvinsim wrote: post #756
krapp wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop caring about pretend internet points.

Unlike Reddit, HN actually makes downvoted posts unreadable(unless you go to the pain of highlighting the text or changing the CSS).

I think this needs to be questioned. Visually show downvotes with a number or a red color somewhere. But, making it difficult to read needs to be challenged.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#775

Post by Ericson2314 »

Waterfall wrote: post #727
cool_dude85 wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The detritus between your toes is not, in fact, a tasty treat.

Maybe you haven't had the full emulsified flavor of the Sweet Stallman Skin Sap. It's better than usual toe jams from other free software activists.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/scientists-create-toe-belly-but... Stallamn should sell some Camembert.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#776

Post by kalleboo »

danudey wrote: post #201
askl56 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/slasher/status/1295434558112960519?s=21 This may have consequences for Unreal Engine too. Without a dev account, how can they maintain it?

They can still build and test on-device, they just won't be able to publish anything to the app store. Specifically, in XCode, they can add an Apple ID (any Apple ID) and use that to build on a device.[1] This creates a "personal team"[2] which you can use to test on your devices. [1] https://help.apple.com/xcode/mac/current/#/devaf282080a [2] https://help.apple.com/xcode/mac/current/#/dev17411c009

That would work technically, but legally would a company that has been banned from the developer program have their developers use "Personal Teams" also be against the Terms of Service?

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#777

Post by AlexandrB »

colinmhayes wrote: post #458
thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right. Epic is trying to use it's user-base as pawns against Apple, but it isn't working. Is Epic planning on lowering the cost of games on iOS by 30% if the fee goes away? I don't believe they are. Edit: Thank you save_ferris for for correcting me. Here is the blog post announcing the discount. https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/the-fortnite-m...

It's legitimately difficult for me to comprehend anyone being on apple's side here. I'm not talking legally, I'm talking about which companies preferred outcome would be better for consumers. Epic being allowed to open their own app store would mean every app has 18% less fees. That is nothing but good for consumers. It's legitimately an improvement for everyone except apple.

Epic is acting in bad faith. They've spent millions of dollars over the last 2 years securing dozens of platform exclusives for the Epic game store, in some cases forcing the cancellation of customer's pre-orders on other platforms. They're not GoG. They're very happy to support and fund anti-consumer behavior and closed platforms as long as they're the beneficiaries.

This is why I think this should be regarded as a contract dispute between two huge companies and not some David vs. Goliath struggle for freedom or consumer rights.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#778

Post by NoPicklez »

AlexandrB wrote: post #764

As usual in these corporate pissing matches, those harmed are the customers. Neither Epic nor Apple come out looking particularly good. Epic's publicity stunt amounts to a marketing ploy and an attempt at hardball negotiation of app store terms. But it does put the negative aspects of Apple's tight-fisted control of iOS software into sharp focus and demonstrates why consumers should be wary of total platform control…

How else do you propose they go after Apple? Go through this process without violating the app store?

Then most people would turn a blind eye to the issue because it hasn't actually impacted them.

Yes the customer is impacted, but by impacting the customer with the right message Epic can turn their customer base against Apple in the process.

Not only does it hurt the customer, but it also hurts Epic by cutting off a massive chunk of their player base.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#779

Post by ibeckermayer »

floatingatoll wrote: post #373
amaccuish wrote: post #97

What took me aback was the withdrawing permission to notarise their apps for Mac. That was only meant to be a check for known vulnerabilities/malicious software. Apple was more within their rights to kick Fortnite until the dust has settled from the iOS store, that was the retaliation, but now a mechanism supposedly for security has been repurposed as punishment. That's a pretty nasty move and I feel the mask has sli…

Epic expressly snuck code through the door to activate a user-visible feature in direct prohibition to App Store rules. Apple could have revoked their developer certificate in response, which would have essentially killed all installations of Fortnite iOS/Mac worldwide within 24 hours. That they are merely revoking their ability to sign new code and giving them 2 weeks to perform an orderly shutdown is far less draco…

Rather than building a platform that empowers developers to build the apps that best serve the varied needs and preferences of individuals, Apple have constructed a corporate walled garden in which they impose a drab lowest-common-denominator conformity on all developers and users.

It takes a real sucker to fall for the “its for your own safety” propaganda while they arbitrarily tax you 30% on the fields you tilled like some medieval feudal lord.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#780

Post by kalleboo »

0x402DF854 wrote: post #23

From a preliminary statement of Epic's motion: > Just over two weeks ago, Apple’s CEO Tim Cook was asked during a Congressional hearing whether Apple has “ever retaliated against or disadvantaged a developer who went public about their frustrations with the App Store”. Mr. Cook testified, “We do not retaliate or bully people. It’s strongly against our company culture.”

I'm not at all on Apple's side in the App Store battle, but on this point, Apple is still consistent. Anyone breaking the App Store rules this blatantly would have their developer account terminated, wether they went public or not.
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