Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work • Hacker News Board

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#771

Post by nostrademons » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 1:50 AM UTC

mike00632 wrote: post #745

nostrademons wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did this for many years - when I moved to Silicon Valley in 2009 tech's attitude was "We just provide the mechanism, we let our users determine policy". My first couple years at Google (09-10), management was very insistent that "We don't take sides - we show the user the best result for their query regardless of how much we dislike it." There were examples like literal searches for Nazis where the top result wa…

Google listed its own services high in search results in order to promote and show favor to those services. Why shouldn't people use this same logic to criticize Google for effectively promoting hate groups?

The thing is - it didn't, at least while I was there. The triggering of universal result groups (eg. Local, Shopping, or News results within the search results page) was based on the probability that for a given query, the user would end up wanting to switch over to the respective Google property rather than click on the top result. There was no manual tweaking of search results, and the formulas were so simple (basically straight ratios) that it's hard for them to be mucked with.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#772

Post by austincheney » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 1:52 AM UTC

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #168

Without trying to be inflammatory in any manner, I will say that it takes a certain level of privilege to say one shouldn’t discuss politics at work. If you disagree I’m happy to discuss this viewpoint rather than being downvoted to oblivion. Lots of issues are deemed “political”, but imagine you fall into one of the marginalized groups: — lgbt: Don’t discuss the possibility about being fired for your sexuality becau…

I don't mean to be inflammatory but you are subjectively biasing the subject of "political discussions at work" out of concern for marginalized groups. In my experience this bias often has the opposite of intended result by providing what might be a marginalized group into a specialized class deserving extra-special care instead of equality, which eventually results in entitlement and possibly resentment.

If you want to protect marginalized groups write and enforce policies that focus on inclusion, equality, and anti-discrimination regardless of politics or preference. In other words: when nobody is special everybody is equally special.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#773

Post by kevinmchugh » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 1:53 AM UTC

gknapp wrote: post #678

burtonator wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it was that simple honestly. If Google is doing business with nazis then as a consumer I have absolutely every right to boycott Google.

In this case, it's likely that Nazis would be labeled a terrorist organization, or a wartime enemy, and would be subject to federally-enforced economic sanctions. It actually would be illegal for Google to do business with Nazis.

We're talking about Illinois Nazis, not 1945 Nazis. The bums who won their court case - it doesn't seem like the law is stopping them.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#774

Post by cryptica » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 1:54 AM UTC

Corporations have become hotbeds for oppression and self-censorship. They will devolve towards mediocrity.

At least it should become easier for startups to compete against them.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#775

Post by hayd » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 1:55 AM UTC

midnighttoker wrote: post #348

jtms wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would advocate for Joe Rogan, he is a voice of openness and willingness to talk about things rather than just shutting down conversations because you might not agree. He is also a great listener. The world needs more people like Rogan.

You should shut down conversations with nazis and the far right figures he regularly has as guests. Joe Rogan platforms these people for profit. Joe Rogan is not a good person.

What "Nazis" and "far right" figures are you talking about? Can you give examples of both? Thanks.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#776

Post by mike00632 » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 1:58 AM UTC

cgiles wrote: post #522

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #168

Without trying to be inflammatory in any manner, I will say that it takes a certain level of privilege to say one shouldn’t discuss politics at work. If you disagree I’m happy to discuss this viewpoint rather than being downvoted to oblivion. Lots of issues are deemed “political”, but imagine you fall into one of the marginalized groups: — lgbt: Don’t discuss the possibility about being fired for your sexuality becau…

> it’s unfortunate that these type of issues are so divisive. The reason they are so divisive is because the loud people fall into two categories: 1) people who loudly and constantly complain about these issues and for whom no amount of improvement is enough, and 2) people who think all these problems are greatly exaggerated, part of the liberal culture wars, and find it extremely annoying that anyone would bring it…

>The "silent majority" in these issues are people who say "yeah, sure, it seems fair to allow gay marriage, why not"...

For a very long time this was NOT the majority opinion despite some brave tech companies imposing policies that prevented LGBT discrimination.

Keep in mind too that many states in which tech companies do business still (with the support of the majority) legalize discrimination of LGBT in hiring, housing, lending, everything. Some states even have policies that try to prevent LGBT people from raising families.

This isn't a case of two strident extremes causing a ruckus while the well-mannered majority knows best.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#777

Post by ineedasername » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:00 AM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #768

There's really two mandates to workers here: 1: Don't discuss politics at work. This seems reasonable, when the discussion has a good chance of getting heated and making it more difficult to work with colleagues. 2: Don't vet potential customers (in part because it might get political) This second one is less defensible. Avoiding politics is fine when it's unrelated to the work, but when it intrudes on work, it becom…

For the downvoters: maybe you haven't worked somewhere that the work has explicit political context. I have. There are ways of dealing with that fact that don't degenerate into shouting and acrimony. There are ways of professionally, maturely, addressing difficult issues relevant to the work you do.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#778

Post by m0zg » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:02 AM UTC

Politics are the new religion anyway: all rational thought has long been abandoned by both camps, at least in the US. So if it's mauvais ton to discuss religion at work (an it is), politics should follow the same rules. Same with political activism: do it on your own time and dime, if it's not related to e.g. worker rights and such.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#779

Post by LordHumungous » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:03 AM UTC

SkyBelow wrote: post #496

XPKBandMaidCzun wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will say that it takes a certain level of privilege to say one shouldn’t discuss politics at work. Having a discussion is hard. While you come to this well-intended, participants bring their own life experiences and hardships. They may not agree on the starting point of the conversation: How is "marginalized' and "privileged" is defined? Some may not take that perspective on the above issues, and people with thes…

>Casting a group as marginalized draws broad strokes about others, because who isn't marginalized? How could someone know how someone else feels or what they have faced in life? If you don't like having your hardship belittled, why potentially do the same thing to others? We all have feelings and their own unique stories. Let me give you a real world example. In the US, the average white person goes to a better funde…

Yeah I think with African Americans there's definitely a case to be made for that. What I don't buy into is that narrative being applied to white and Asian women, who are every bit as privileged as white males if not more so.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#780

Post by ascertain » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:03 AM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #768

There's really two mandates to workers here: 1: Don't discuss politics at work. This seems reasonable, when the discussion has a good chance of getting heated and making it more difficult to work with colleagues. 2: Don't vet potential customers (in part because it might get political) This second one is less defensible. Avoiding politics is fine when it's unrelated to the work, but when it intrudes on work, it becom…

They've since changed #2 to the point of walking the whole thing back.