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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#771

Post by pwf »

nopcode wrote: post #675
IanCal wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provide electricity, or your phone provider cut off service or what not. I think it's key that in this case cloudflare are actively between you and 8chan. The phone provider is the most reasonable comparison, were you able to switch provider. I wouldn't be hugely shocked if…

What’s wrong with hosting a manifesto? Getting insight into the state of mind of such an individual seems valuable, no?

It's not about the manifesto: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/08/04/the-el-p...

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#772

Post by viridian »

yardie wrote: post #648
zimpenfish wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They choose not to apply this approach to white supremacy. "[...] the measures taken against ISIS were so extreme that, if applied to white supremacy, there would certainly be backlash, because algorithms would obviously flag content that has been tweeted by prominent Republicans—or, at the very least, their supporters." https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a3xgq5/why-wont-twitter-t...

Honestly, they should have done exactly that. Flag their content and ban them. Then go to the capitol. And when some politician asks, "why was I banned?" Tell them honestly, your statements were determined to be extremist by the same algorithm that bans Al Qaeda and ISIS from posting. Then sit back and watch the real fireworks go off. Just because they have a political title does not mean we have to respect anything…

Seems like the type of thing you'd find in a dystopian YA novel. Remembering back to being a kid, a lot of them have that kind of setup for disenfranchising the ideology the hero/heroine ends up aligning themselves to, and establishing the group of villainous adults. Actually, I think this exact plot point happens in the Dreamfall series.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#773

Post by mcny »

chroma wrote: post #157
mcny wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the "Free Speech is freedom from government prohibition and this is a private company" brigade. I dont want to live in a world where color people is being prohibited to enter a night venue, or gay people cannot order a simple cake, or YES, dude who think their race is more superior being able to blabber their nonsense online as long as it is nothing illegal. After all similar sentiments are expressed (veiled or…

> I think at some point it goes up against the "yelling 'fire' in a crowded movie theater" exemption of free speech. You know where that phrase came from? It was coined in Schenck v. United States[1], where Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr convicted the defendant for publishing pamphlets opposing the draft in the first world war. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

I'll admit. I didn't know the origin. I don't know whether I'd have supported or opposed this verdict but I can't support the administration's supposed vigorous enforcement.

I think laws are not absolute. We frequently allow prohibited acts because common sense and decency. If you're at a light and it turns yellow, you should stop but not if there's a car close behind you and you're more likely to get in a wreck by stopping rather than speeding up.

I oppose the draft as it exists. It is wrong and immoral to have a draft of only "able-bodied" people of one gender. The draft, if one exists, should be for everyone. No body gets an exemption regardless of their personal belief or body condition. They don't all have to fight. There are plenty of opportunities (I'd imagine) to serve without ever being in a hand to hand combat. Either have a draft of all adults regardless of any other exemptions or don't have one at all.

I'll try to avoid the phrase going forward.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#774

Post by michannne »

zimpenfish wrote: post #520
odessacubbage wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and what about the the communities for queers and autistics on 8ch that will be lost in order to cater to your particular sense of indignation while in effect doing virtually nothing to limit the ability of psychopathic losers to kill large numbers of people? as an aside assigning any credibility to the motives of crazy person with no value for human life makes no more sense in the case of mass killings than it does…

> doing virtually nothing to limit the ability of psychopathic losers to kill large numbers of people Deplatforming 8chan isn't about limiting the ability of these people to kill large numbers (that would require effective gun control) - it's about removing a source of provocation, radicalisation, cheering, etc. for them both before and after.

A message board is not a source of any of those things. 8chan does not have a super-god who removes comments they don't like, there is no inherent leaning in the structure of the website. Any platform is liable to this kind of behavior, so what exactly does this achieve? If it isn't Cloudflare, it's self-hosted. If it isn't 8chan, it's Twitter, it's Facebook. There is no shortage of places where radicals could go to let their beliefs fester. What about removing hosting for 8chan resolves anything that you've mentioned?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#775

Post by mieseratte »

sokoloff wrote: post #736
mieseratte wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not a move to get publicity, but cloudfare giving in to public pressure. Well I'm not sure which is worse. Using tragedy for publicity or caving to a mob.

Seems they can’t win then.

The only winning move is to not play.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#776

Post by tdewitt »

jumbopapa wrote: post #743
onli wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN If a CDN is necessary to support the site being a public platform that's not a given. This whole "A private company should be able to act like it pleases" that Cloudflare mirrors in their news is an ideological standpoint, not an absolute truth. It's certainly possible to see it differently: If a comp…

I genuinely do not believe the access to the guns are the issue here. There are plenty of ways to accomplish something like this without a gun, so removing the guns from the picture would just change the method. It's lazy to just say that "gun control will fix this" because you're ignoring solving the actual problem of why people are doing this.

I have guns in my home. My wife hates guns and she has a home defense weapon. That's my intro because I don't want to be mistaken for anti-gun. I like guns and I like shooting.

How would you accomplish this without a firearm? Do you think you could accomplish this with a bat or a knife? The attack happened at a Walmart. They sell hard objects. This couldn't have gotten far. I can't imagine a location or situation where you could be so effective in harming so many without a weapon that gives you so much distance from your victim.

Do you have kids? I have one. Every day I look at my toddler and have to think about how to keep her safe (statistics are in my favor but they were in every parents' favor). Then I have to look at my wife and assure her that our baby will be able to live a long life.

I'll relinquish my second amendment rights, if I never again ahave to live through a year where there are more mass shootings than days. For now, we're just moving out of Texas.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#777

Post by raxxorrax »

sokoloff wrote: post #736
mieseratte wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not a move to get publicity, but cloudfare giving in to public pressure. Well I'm not sure which is worse. Using tragedy for publicity or caving to a mob.

Seems they can’t win then.

True in a way. But in such a situation the better option is always not to act and invoke plausible deniability. Otherwise we will see repeated efforts.

Although 8chan is probably just a sacrificial anode for 4chan and some other sites, the pressure of censors will probably not subside for a while. Even if their chances are slim, it is really bothering how quickly people throw away rights just to have an opportunity to point their fingers on people they believe are worse than themselves.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#779

Post by wsy »

FourScore wrote: post #452
mort96 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking orders from gay people and hosting services for sites which support far-right terrorism aren't exactly the same though. We can be against suppressing gay people and for suppressing far-right terrorism even if the means by which the suppression happens is similar.

But don't you see how the lines blue very quickly? It's not always as clear where morality lies as when some lunatic posts terroristic threats. Arbitrary value judgements must be made when enforcing censorship so censorship always leads to conflict between groups that disagree on what should be censored. That's why the best course of action is to not censor at all and allow the system to work itself out.

The rules of society are always a trade-off.

In this case, the idea is to lose a bit of free speech, and gain less hatred and less murder. That is not an arbitrary judgement; admittedly this is also not a clear-cut judgement.

The system never works itself out, successful societies are the ones which have established governing rules. Game theory has given us pretty good indication that systems rather self-destruct without governance than self-stabilize.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#780

Post by mkane848 »

mieseratte wrote: post #699
rocqua wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been many vocal calls for cloudfare to drop 8chan. This is not a move to get publicity, but cloudfare giving in to public pressure.

> This is not a move to get publicity, but cloudfare giving in to public pressure. Well I'm not sure which is worse. Using tragedy for publicity or caving to a mob.

Why do you assume it's only the two options that happen to conform to your narrative?
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