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We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

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Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#771

Post by mixmastamyk »

repler wrote: post #261
pascalxus wrote: post #60

But HR isn't the only problem. In my experience having worked for a company that hired heavily for several years, it was the engineers who lacked the talent necessary to conduct proper interviews. Great candidates were being rejected by the truck load. Us engineers, we're great at engineering but many of the junior and mid-level ones don't have much experience interviewing people and usually no training whatsoever. S…

I ask candidates to tell me about something they created they are proud of, and why. All you have to do after that is listen.

Believe you’ve just learned how culture specific this question is.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#772

Post by mixmastamyk »

harigov wrote: post #490
iliketosleep wrote: post #25

I've always assumed that the so-called "talent shortage" was an excuse to get cheap labor from abroad. They make job ads such that it's improbable that a local will meet the highly specific requirements, after which they complain of a skills shortage, and then they have their excuse to import cheap labor.

Did you ever imagine if both ends of the spectrum are true? Maybe there is a talent shortage and maybe there are companies trying to get cheap labor from abroad. We are a reasonable sized company trying to recruit people with advanced skills. Finding talent that includes large number of H1B's is hard on its own. Forget finding talent that excludes 95% of the world (aka H1B's). Most of the candidates I get to intervie…

Yes, reality is typically more complex than we’d like.

My question is why not spend that money developing smart local folks.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#773

Post by bayesian_horse »

TuringNYC wrote: post #742
bayesian_horse wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This example certainly constitutes a "shortage", especially from the point of the employer. He has a demand which he can't fulfill. Due to not fulfilling it, he has problems investing his capital as productively as possible. The idea that job applicants get offered wages which they perceive as too low does not mean that there is not a shortage of similar talent on the market, even at reasonable wages, if there even i…

>> The idea that job applicants get offered wages which they perceive as too low does not mean that there is not a shortage of similar talent on the market, even at reasonable wages, if there even is such a thing. In the Bay Area, I rarely hear friends complaining of wages "perceived" as too low, usually it is more absolute in terms or it wont pay rent . This isnt usually the case for entry level or medium level jobs…

So, what are the experienced engineers with families and an expensive life style doing then?

Unless they prefer to be unemployed, or work outside the industry (and Silicon Valley), their turning down a job offer because of too low compensation does not preclude a real talent shortage. Usually they are already employed at a wage that pays rent, right?

All this talk about low wages seems to assume recruiters and employers are stupid. But they aren't, for the most part. If they think they could make a higher profit by doubling the wage offer and thus hiring an additional engineer, they would do it. Stupidity or stupid greed is not a smart way to reject that basic economic imperative for an industry as a whole.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#774

Post by bryanrasmussen »

bsanr2 wrote: post #610
sverige wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the recruiter thought the candidate was lying > they don't trust candidates ...which is a great tell for what kind of relationship you would be starting if you did take the offer.

My understanding is that it IS common to lie, or else to redirect the conversation from what was made in the last position to what is desired for the new position. Why should it matter? You're being hired to fill a position that's worth x amount of compensation; the primary reason to ask for prior compensation seems to be to to get a "deal" (i.e., rob an employee of potential earnings).

In my country there are very good statistics provided by the technical unions as to what compensation can be expected by region, technology domain, and seniority. I tend to quote those to set my salary and then argue up if need be.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#775

Post by rightbyte »

exelius wrote: post #728
rightbyte wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like FAAMG but it's not pronounceble. I always though Netflix was a odd company next to the giants. MS is a better one. Maybe IBM should be included as well. "FAGAMI" ... maybe "FAMAGI" to be less profound.

IBM doesn’t belong; their revenue has been flat for 20 years and they have almost no influence in the tech world anymore. My clients view IBM as a consulting company with a market position somewhere between Infosys and Accenture. On the other hand, Microsoft is still quite relevant to the future; Azure is getting a lot of traction in the enterprise world as an alternative tech stack to AWS. VSTS is rapidly displacing…

Ye, there are not much hype around IBM. But IBM is surely more technically forerunners than Netflix.

Is VSTS any good? Or is it from the ash into the fire? I would love to get rid of Jira at work.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#776

Post by naveen99 »

bsanr2 wrote: post #610
sverige wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the recruiter thought the candidate was lying > they don't trust candidates ...which is a great tell for what kind of relationship you would be starting if you did take the offer.

My understanding is that it IS common to lie, or else to redirect the conversation from what was made in the last position to what is desired for the new position. Why should it matter? You're being hired to fill a position that's worth x amount of compensation; the primary reason to ask for prior compensation seems to be to to get a "deal" (i.e., rob an employee of potential earnings).

Once you make lying common, not sure you can claim higher moral ground or even a flat stable ground to stand on ever.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#777

Post by swoongoonz »

chrisweekly wrote: post #581
swoongoonz wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These kids would be competing with incredibly prolific web developers who not only output an insane amount of code themselves but manage OSS at massive scales. One example is Jordan Harband, responsible for: 1. Enzyme, the current top used React testing library 2. NVM, kind of the only game in town for managing node versions 3. qs, a tool for converting search to json objects and back 4. tc39 proposals, the committee…

nit: `n` is way better than `nvm`

+1 to n for the homebrew installation. nvm team is notoriously hardheaded about not wanting to maintain availability through different tools.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#778

Post by swoongoonz »

roenxi wrote: post #611
swoongoonz wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These kids would be competing with incredibly prolific web developers who not only output an insane amount of code themselves but manage OSS at massive scales. One example is Jordan Harband, responsible for: 1. Enzyme, the current top used React testing library 2. NVM, kind of the only game in town for managing node versions 3. qs, a tool for converting search to json objects and back 4. tc39 proposals, the committee…

I disagree with the direction gp is taking, big projects involving money and people are not easy. On the other hand your example might support his argument. You've drawn attention to an Airbnb engineer with a bunch of other interests that don't seem directly related to the infrastructure behind the company. I'm sure they use these things, but they aren't going to be critical to the success or failure of the site. Tha…

That's totally possible but if you're the CTO of Airbnb would you want the high schooler for cheap (who may be unreliable when it comes to managing schedules, following protocols, having the maturity to deal with failing systems) or do you want the guy who's been managing all of these OS products for years? It's a person issue, not really a competency issue.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#779

Post by hash872 »

whttheuuu wrote: post #765
hash872 wrote: post #384

"Why Are You Reposting Jobs With Over 1000 applications?" Because over 95% of them are completely random and do not meet even one single criteria of the job. Or, are fake resumes from H1B consulting shops. Post a senior software developer job in New York? Get ready for over half of the applications to be from a Burger King employee in South Carolina, a security guard in Florida, a mechanic in Idaho, etc. They spam th…

That's still over 50 qualified applicants..

I said 95% don't meet any qualifications. Those remaining 50 are at best a partial match

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#780

Post by jmcqk6 »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #769
jmcqk6 wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is NOT a shortage of software developers. That myth was developed by big tech, and pushed all the way up the ladder, to the top of government. The goal? Reduce labor costs. What is the line of reasoning than goes from 'there is a shortage of developers' to 'therefore, we need to pay less.'?

They don’t want to pay market rates, so promote a story to slow or reverse wage inflation. But “don’t wanna pay” (when companies and 1%ers are hoarding like never before) doesn’t equal a shortage.

If there is a shortage, by supply and demand, wages should go up.

If they want to pay less, they should be out saying that there is an over supply and they can get workers for whatever wage they actually want.

You haven't explained how a shortage can lead to paying less on the part of companies... I still don't understand this logic.

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