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Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

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Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#771

Post by reitanqild »

stef25 wrote: post #462
reitanqild wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could install Linux on a 500€ laptop but you wouldn't have the keyboard or screen quality of the Macbook, nor would have access to the Apple ecosystem. I used a 2009 MacBook pro for close to 3 years. The following are my opinions, they are not valid for everyone but for some of us they are very valid: Keyboard had ctrl in a different spot than every other keyboard I ever spent significant time with. (Disclaimer…

Home, page up and page down is just CMD + left, up or down arrow isn't it? Selecting a word: double click / tap on it.

> Home, page up and page down is just CMD + left, up or down arrow isn't it?

Back then I think that too depended on the application. I tried everything and googled it.

> Selecting a word: double click / tap on it.

I prefer the keyboard.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#772

Post by foldr »

reitanqild wrote: post #733
foldr wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Basic things like selecting a word using the keyboard would take one of three key combos depending on which app. I think sometimes it was ctrl-shift-arrow, sometimes alt-shift-arrow and sometimes fn-shift-arrow. Whereas all Linux GUI applications follow a completely consistent set of keyboard bindings...

Both linux and Windows seems to get basic text selection right, yes. Of modern desktop os-es, Mac OS X was the only one who has ever consistently surprised me on this . It might not be a big deal to everyone but for me who - deal with text day out and day - and prefer to keep my hands at the keyboard (even when I have a nice trackpad) small thing like this matters. Just like details like a good trackpad matters to ot…

The text selection shortcuts are completely consistent on modern OS X, in my experience. At least, I can't find an app where shift+alt+right_arrow doesn't select a word.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#773

Post by foldr »

ajross wrote: post #716
foldr wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Basic things like selecting a word using the keyboard would take one of three key combos depending on which app. I think sometimes it was ctrl-shift-arrow, sometimes alt-shift-arrow and sometimes fn-shift-arrow. Whereas all Linux GUI applications follow a completely consistent set of keyboard bindings...

Yes! Exactly! It's the only environment where I can rely on all text entry working with emacs keybindings, though to be fair I have to poke a setting to get that. Oh wait, you were being sarcastic. Well, at least you were wrong and learned something I guess. (No seriously, you're wrong here. Linux desktops solved the uniform keybinding problem in a cross-desktop way like a decade ago. You just don't like it because t…

All text entry works with emacs keybindings on OS X without having to poke at a setting. Or rather, one setting per toolkit:

https://superuser.com/questions/171925/enable-emacs-like-key...

>You just don't like it because they're different, not because they're inconsistent.

I didn't say anything about not liking Linux keybindings. It's a minor issue for me personally.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#774

Post by ggregoire »

Unpopular opinion on HN: I prefer the new keyboard to the old one. Sure it feels a bit weird the first week, but after 8 months typing with it, I can tell you I won’t go back to the old one.

And yes it breaks too easily. And the touchbar is useless. But I like the keaboard.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#775

Post by mediocrejoker »

Pigo wrote: post #708
apexe wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in the same boat. Received one at work and can not stand the keyboard. I requested an older model, but they are no longer providing them. It might seem dramatic, but I spend my days typing and I need my keyboard to not get in my way. I have resorted to bringing a USB keyboard into work with me.

I have to know if this story is gaining traction because of the Joe Rogan podcast. Did you see his hour long rant on abandoning Apple because of this yesterday? Or is everyone simultaneously reaching this same conclusion? He was very much a kool-aid drinker, but also a writer, so the keyboard is apparently a huge deal to him. I've basically never owned an Apple product so I'm just watching this from an outsiders pers…

Do you know which episode this was?

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#776

Post by pbecotte »

hedora wrote: post #763
apexe wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in the same boat. Received one at work and can not stand the keyboard. I requested an older model, but they are no longer providing them. It might seem dramatic, but I spend my days typing and I need my keyboard to not get in my way. I have resorted to bringing a USB keyboard into work with me.

I’ve seen new MBP users bring usb keyboards to meetings. The year of the Linux laptop may soon be upon us. ;-)

Yeah, I switched and am pretty happy.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#777

Post by sanderjd »

Joeri wrote: post #750
sanderjd wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the original? My memory of the time was seeing a bunch of cool Microsoft Surface demos, thinking "someone is gonna make a killing putting this on a phone", and the iPhone coming out a few months later. I'll go so far as to say that I think it was the first touch screen phone that was actually manufactured and sold. But I'll be very curious to be proven wrong!

The LG prada phone was 6 months earlier than the iphone demo and was all-touch with a capacitive screen. LG claimed apple ripped off their design, but I think it’s more a case of hardware evolving to the point this became possible and both companies implementing, but LG releasing a less ambitious product sooner.

I see now that we've been talking about "touch screens" in this thread, but I've been thinking of that as meaning the multi-touch screens we're all so familiar with now (and of which the Microsoft Surface was the first demo I saw). It looks like the Prada had a capacitive screen, but not multi-touch. Maybe multi-touch was the thing, which is why the Prada was forgotten? Maybe not, maybe the iPhone just won by marketing and deals with carriers. Beats me.

In any case, I'm quibbling, I didn't know about the Prada before you mentioned it, which makes your point. Thanks for the pointer!

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#778

Post by zgramana »

protonimitate wrote: post #684
roystonvassey wrote: post #586

I am a huge fan of Apple's products and never understood the fuss when the new Pro Keyboard attracted bad press, reading it on my old, robust pre-2015 era Macbook. Until now. I got the new one at my job three months back. And, here I am, still struggling with and super annoyed with the missed keystrokes (the buttons are so thin/don't press properly), the almost non-existent 'Enter' keys (seriously, who messes with th…

Does anyone have any insight into why Apple's QA took a turn for the worse over the past couple years? Buggy IOS/OS releases and now the hardware issues... I always equated Apple with quality and consistency (along with price), but now I can't really see how the price is justified with the issues they have been having.

You can explain Apple’s problems with a much simpler albeit banal reason: its sheer size. It has grown massive.

They took over the old Sun campus in Sunnyvale while the UFO was under construction, and shortly thereafter the word was that those teams would be remaining there long term as the HQ was already overbooked. Apple also bought up a lot of space in San Jose a couple of years ago.

Apple pioneered small and fast teams of veterans. But it doesn’t scale well to this size. It’s a challenge to effectively coordinate hundreds (thousands?) of teams building various integrated hardware, software, and service components.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#779

Post by usermac »

ggregoire wrote: post #774

Unpopular opinion on HN: I prefer the new keyboard to the old one. Sure it feels a bit weird the first week, but after 8 months typing with it, I can tell you I won’t go back to the old one. And yes it breaks too easily. And the touchbar is useless. But I like the keaboard.

I'm with you man. I walked into an Apple Store and tried the keyboard and said 'no go' but later I said I'd give it a try and it is just fine. Macbook for two years now.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#780

Post by foldr »

reitanqild wrote: post #743
rbanffy wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keyboard lacked home, end ^A, ^E, just like on a terminal or Emacs. ^K deletes to the end of the line.

Learned that. But it doesn't compose with shift for selection. I also learned and still use the official workaround for that which is pretty nice often: shift + arrow up/down while on start/end of a line

>But it doesn't compose with shift for selection.

Yes it does. Ctrl+Shift+E selects the text up to the end of the line.

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