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Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

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Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#771

Post by rubberstamp »

masondixon wrote: post #614
chippy wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious: > I have never been able to properly explain the rationale to a liberal Have you ever had explained the liberal rationale to you and did you understand it? I'm wondering if it works one way, or everyone struggles to understand the other. Thanks.

> Have you ever had explained the liberal rationale to you and did you understand it? My Medium daily update newsletter is full of feminist, progressive, black lives matter articles. I read all of them. I read all the comments on Reddit, and on HN. Everything is labelled as racism and misogynistic and full of vitriol. There is no priority on sound and valid argument. Its all about feelings. Maybe I live in a filter b…

The basic issue is people now a days are not using language properly. Its hard to accurately convey what you are actually trying to convey. When you are writing on some topic, its easy to read what you have just wrote and correct it if it came out wrong. But when you speak, unless you are speaking to a calm and patient crowd, if anything comes out wrong then that will be used against you to smear you. That is what makes politics dirty and out of reach for most people. People often wanting the same things are just fighting each other believing that everyone else is wrong. One should learn to use language properly. Another important point is do not resort to personal attacks at all. Personal attacks makes sure the other person won't listen. Everyone needs to be civil and consider what the other side is saying and the reason why they are saying it. Media needs to report actual facts of things, which is very very rare now a days. Unless these kind of basic issues go away, democracy is a lost case.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#772

Post by tptacek »

rdtsc wrote: post #509
tptacek wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why exactly am I meant to be comforted by the fact that the craven opportunists --- the lowest of the low of the Republican party, discredited outsiders like Newt Gingrich and John Bolton --- are getting the most important positions in the United States government for kowtowing to Trump? There are important thinkers in the Republican Party. People with ideas and a moral core, people who have given years of service to…

Wondering, who do you think he should have brought on board that you'd think -- "Oh that's a good choice, good for him"? I would guess nobody? If he brought Gingrich it would have been "He's bringing the old crusty white guy from the establishment, he's been lying all this time he is just like them". If he brought in a woman, people would have just said "he is using her as a token"?

If you'd read the whole comment, you'd see that I provided an example in the comment itself.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#773

Post by domfletcher »

return0 wrote: post #695
domfletcher wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right about the need for debate around how identity politics can be better expressed and that is a debate that seems to have been slightly suppressed on the left. I would say two things about why I don't think this is a good reason to support Trump: 1. The situation you describe is fundamentally about freedom of speech vs the right not be be offended. Trump is not an advocate of freedom of speech and d…

> how identity politics can be better expressed Do you not think that the elections showed that identity politics do NOT matter, instead national politics matter more?

I'm talking to OP's specific point around siding with Trump. I think the point is that no body on my side understands what matters in terms of motivating the electorate.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#774

Post by masondixon »

tommymachine wrote: post #719
prairiedogg wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok - thanks for clarifying. I don't think that this assertion strengthens an argument that voting for Trump is better than voting for any other candidate. I would argue that someone who does not have experience in public office should not be considered a viable candidate for president of the United States, much as I believe that someone who has not driven a car before should not be considered to be a driver in the In…

The analogy you present, Public office : no experience as a public official :: doctor :: no experience as a doctor I don't find it very accurate. It might be more accurate to say public executive : corporate executive :: public doctor : doctor with a private practice There are plenty of real concerns that arise from the accurate version, enough that here is no need to impose an inaccurate analogy to spawn more concer…

Well said.

Trump is able to say things that others cannot. He can speak freely.

In corporate politics, the biggest killer is people not being able to speak openly which creates a toxic back stabbing atmosphere.

You can see this in the Clinton Foundation from the leaked emails.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#775

Post by tptacek »

davidp wrote: post #564
tptacek wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this a coherent argument? "Here is an individual moment from someone's life. Use it to prove they're bigoted." How about we cite other moments in his life? Like the (multiple!) Stanford peers he had who recounted his support for apartheid, or the book he wrote about the evils of diversity, or the blog post he wrote for Cato in 2009 lamenting that women had obtained the right to vote? How about getting up on st…

> or the blog post he wrote for Cato in 2009 lamenting that women had obtained the right to vote? He said no such thing in that article[1]. I have no idea about the rest, or about Thiel in general, but I did read the article. Your statement is as bad and inaccurate as any one-liner soundbite on right wing media. The section in question (emphasis mine): As one fast-forwards to 2009, the prospects for a *libertarian po…

Despite its length, your comment is not in fact responsive to mine.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#776

Post by mch82 »

lorenzhs wrote: post #744
mch82 wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Muslims often say: "Stop calling all of us terrorists and stop saying Islam encourages terrorism because you are missing the real underlying issues. We want everyone to be happy just like you do, but we think your understanding of terrorism is flawed." Can you recognize the parallel between your statement and the one I've paraphrased above?

I don't think that's a good comparison. The vast majority of Muslims don't support terrorist organisations. That's why guilt by association, as pushed by people like Trump, is so harmful here.

We agree that the vast majority over Muslims are not terrorists.

But the guilt by association is my point.

In this election, people who voted for Trump considered his Muslim ban policy acceptable enough that they didn't make him change it before they elected him. And guilt by association can cause that support to be interpreted as racist.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#777

Post by notahacker »

BurningFrog wrote: post #747
notahacker wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we can assume that just because somebody accepts a job working for the President necessarily means they necessarily condone the tone of his campaign or ever judged him to be a good choice for president. They can of course be judged on how they influence and shape policy proposals, and their participation in the process might well be much better or much worse than a principled boycott. Peter Thiel is not…

You can definitely judge him for supporting the campaign. But do you judge him even more for pitching in after the election? As an admirer of Thiel and... the opposite of Trump, I find the whole thing confusing, but I'm definitely glad to have a sharp voice outside the Christie/Gingrich/Guiliani-axis involved. Thiel is not some random rich fat cat who buys an ambassadorship. He's an extremely capable and accomplished…

We judge him for how and why he pitches in, bearing in mind that a Trump presidency is something he wanted to actualise rather than mitigate the effects of.

I don't doubt Thiel is capable and accomplished, but I also don't doubt he's ruthless, ambitious and tends to see things in black and white. It remains to be seen which of the ideas he's championed on he chooses to focuses his efforts on, of course, whether that's encouraging the government to support breakthrough research and entrepreneurship, slashing higher education funding and creating new tax shelters for the ultra rich, or just ensuring Palantir is well-positioned for contracts on new surveillance systems. Of course, reasonable people will still probably argue over what his contribution has been after he's made it. :)

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#778

Post by FullMtlAlcoholc »

burkaman wrote: post #681
thecopy wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He has built no ideological framework for future policies Sounds like a positive thing

Why?

I find ideologies in general a huge impediment to solving problems. It erects imaginary barriers around potential solutions. We can all agree that universal health care at an affordable price is a good thing. Whether that is by market based solutions or by single payer doesnt matter to me. Whatever is most efficient and provides the best health outcomes is what matters, not some belief based upon... faith

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#779

Post by Prefinem »

mch82 wrote: post #671
masondixon wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After losing control of the entire government, there is still this sense of: "I don't need to engage in debate with you". Its just not rationale.

The main lesson learned from Trump's campaign is that "rational" is far less important than "belief" and "story". Here's what seems irrational from my perspective: 1. Bob votes to elect Mike Pence, who takes the position "Homosexuality is incompatible with military service" [mikepence.com] 2. Dan, who is homosexual and in the military and Facebook friends with Bob since they started hanging out in college, finds out…

6. Dan doesn't understand or empathize with Bob that while Bob may or may not approve just one aspect of a politician but that believes Pence is better than 'x' and thus is also a bigot.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#780

Post by defen »

burkaman wrote: post #681
thecopy wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He has built no ideological framework for future policies Sounds like a positive thing

Why?

Ideological leaders (on the left and the right) were responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths in the 20th century, for a start.

More generally, no ideology can actually capture reality. While they all contain some truth, they are all also fundamentally untrue if you drill down far enough. I'd rather grade someone on results (human happiness) than adherence to an ideological framework. I don't mean this in a simple utilitarian sense, either.

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