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Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

politico.com

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Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#761

Post by 999900000999 »

HighGoldstein wrote: post #731
999900000999 wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to force American companies to only use inferior and more expensive models. It's protectionism which will only extend our dominance by at most a decade. The rest of the world will progress without us.

Decade? We're 4 years in since ChatGPT released publicly and have gone from "Wow this thing is stupid" to running coding agents on auto mode, and the Chinese labs have been around for even less time. The US providers may lose dominance in 1 or 2 years.

I’m talking about our overall economic dominance.

We’re still the most powerful economy on earth, but I can’t imagine this continuing forever.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#762

Post by fakedang »

somenameforme wrote: post #746
scoofy wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm anything but a fan of Trump, but I think these typical slurs don't really make any sense. Were Trump corrupt and pliable then he wouldn't be doing half the things he's doing. There's tremendous money and influence in opposition to things he's doing that he could easily cash in on if he wanted. By contrast there's basically no 'Let's go invade Iran' lobby outside of Israel, and even 'Israel' misstates that since i…

> I think these typical slurs don't really make any sense.

Corrupt, pliable and stupid are not slurs.

> There's tremendous money and influence in opposition to things he's doing that he could easily cash in on if he wanted

Is there a Big Solar or Big Wind or Green lobby that's comparable to Big Oil? Is there a huge lobby group for national healthcare? Is there tremendous funding for anti- Big Tech and Data Center movements?

> there's basically no 'Let's go invade Iran' lobby outside of Israel, and even 'Israel' misstates that since it's mostly that nut and yahoo they have for a leader

AIPAC

> corruption is when an external power gets somebody to act in a way that they would not otherwise, in exchange for sort of personal benefit.

See Putin's Russia, the Qataris, Saudis and Emiratis funding the Trump family in exchange for a number of actions such as goading him to war against Iran, desisting from sending American supplies to Ukraine or getting the go-ahead to start a nuclear programme.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#763

Post by [deleted] »

potsandpans wrote: post #691
slashdave wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, you mean not commit fraud? Why would any respectable company do that?

Except this is not fraud. And just because a company _really_ wants to make a trillion dollar valuation doesn't mean they get to invent a new type of fraud.

[deleted]

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#764

Post by [deleted] »

capevace wrote: post #350

I‘m not even sure what the argument for banning Chinese models/open weights even is supposed to be? 1. if it’s to stop hackers doing hacking things with „uncontrollable models“ then, well… they’re already doing something illegal to begin with, why would they care about breaking another law running these models? 2. if it’s to stop foreign actors, then that ban would not apply to them anyway 3. it’s not stopping distil…

[deleted]

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#765

Post by scoofy »

Gagarin1917 wrote: post #755
scoofy wrote: post #436

[flagged]

I don’t think there’s much reason to believe a Democrat or a different Republican would be less likely to implement protectionist laws. That’s kind of a reoccurring problem. Remember when Biden increased tariffs on Chinese EVs because they threatened American auto companies and unions?

Maybe... maybe... if this were a discussion about only his protectionism on Chinese tech, yea, maybe you have a point. Literally everything is coming off the rails because Trump is so obscenely corrupt, so we'll never actually know. A new wall of tariffs, extreme oil prices, subpoenas on journalists for reporting on his Qatari (bribe) plane, the fact that he made about two and a half billion dollars last year somehow (1.5B in TrumpCoin bribes)... This shit just doesn't happen under Democrats or pre-MAGA Republicans.

Yea, if it were just some "big bad concern" about protectionism, sure. My point is that when you elect a corrupt idiot, the protectionism might actually be about protecting his (literal) friends and family's investments, rather than some dying American industry.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#766

Post by verdverm »

capevace wrote: post #350

I‘m not even sure what the argument for banning Chinese models/open weights even is supposed to be? 1. if it’s to stop hackers doing hacking things with „uncontrollable models“ then, well… they’re already doing something illegal to begin with, why would they care about breaking another law running these models? 2. if it’s to stop foreign actors, then that ban would not apply to them anyway 3. it’s not stopping distil…

I don't think we can separate out an enlightened argument from the total politics of out time. We are amidst a struggle between labor and capital, nationalism, and the commodification of humanity's most impressive engineering feat. There is a subset of humans who are romanticizing foregone times with artificial intellectualism. This group as significant control over media and are very good at oersuadion through emotions rather than reason.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#767

Post by somenameforme »

fakedang wrote: post #762
somenameforme wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm anything but a fan of Trump, but I think these typical slurs don't really make any sense. Were Trump corrupt and pliable then he wouldn't be doing half the things he's doing. There's tremendous money and influence in opposition to things he's doing that he could easily cash in on if he wanted. By contrast there's basically no 'Let's go invade Iran' lobby outside of Israel, and even 'Israel' misstates that since i…

> I think these typical slurs don't really make any sense. Corrupt, pliable and stupid are not slurs. > There's tremendous money and influence in opposition to things he's doing that he could easily cash in on if he wanted Is there a Big Solar or Big Wind or Green lobby that's comparable to Big Oil? Is there a huge lobby group for national healthcare? Is there tremendous funding for anti- Big Tech and Data Center mov…

[flagged]

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#768

Post by Gagarin1917 »

scoofy wrote: post #765
Gagarin1917 wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think there’s much reason to believe a Democrat or a different Republican would be less likely to implement protectionist laws. That’s kind of a reoccurring problem. Remember when Biden increased tariffs on Chinese EVs because they threatened American auto companies and unions?

Maybe... maybe... if this were a discussion about only his protectionism on Chinese tech, yea, maybe you have a point. Literally everything is coming off the rails because Trump is so obscenely corrupt, so we'll never actually know. A new wall of tariffs, extreme oil prices, subpoenas on journalists for reporting on his Qatari (bribe) plane, the fact that he made about two and a half billion dollars last year somehow…

> Maybe... maybe... if this were a discussion about only his protectionism on Chinese tech, yea, maybe you have a point.

That is the discussion though…

Too many people here are acting like Trump is the only one who would do this. It’s very likely any President would do the same. The Biden EV tariffs were just one example.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#769

Post by scoofy »

somenameforme wrote: post #746
scoofy wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm anything but a fan of Trump, but I think these typical slurs don't really make any sense. Were Trump corrupt and pliable then he wouldn't be doing half the things he's doing. There's tremendous money and influence in opposition to things he's doing that he could easily cash in on if he wanted. By contrast there's basically no 'Let's go invade Iran' lobby outside of Israel, and even 'Israel' misstates that since i…

Trump made $1.5B off TrumpCoin. Literally a vehicle for bribery, and we know he made over a billion dollars.

The hell are you talking about. There's "corruption" which is pointing fingers, and then there is "we literally have the receipts of countries paying him off (Qatar), and we have the vehicle he created to do exactly that off the record (TrumpCoin)."

So don't pretend it's like "oh, everyone is corrupt." It's ridiculous. Trump is literally verifiably corrupt.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#770

Post by left-struck »

kube-system wrote: post #590
jgbuddy wrote: post #78

The point of open weight models is that this is not possible, companies will be built by taking 'contraband' chinese open weight models and marketing as something from the US

A "ban" is a legal prohibition. The possibility of the ban is solely a legal decision. Open weights might make it easy to violate a ban , but it does absolutely nothing to prevent one from being possible . The questions as to whether a ban would be effective hinges entirely on the ability and desire to enforce it.

I don’t think you’re wrong but I think buddy is trying to say a ban would not be enforceable because the ability aspect won’t be there, even if the will is.
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