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Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

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Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#761

Post by JKCalhoun »

mvdtnz wrote: post #623
nullocator wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unfortunate truth I think is that no matter how many people might be with this idea of just "rising up" and taking back the country, america is is fucking massive and many cities and towns there is no noticeable ice or border patrol presence. So even if you can get people out and protesting at some common meaningless locations its going to be symbolic at best. If you want out-of-band change in the U.S. it will at…

More excuses.

I have voted in every election and have not voted for any in this administration. The wife and I have been to the protests in Omaha. Every one. When there was a walk-out day, the wife and I stayed home, did not shop.

Yeah, it feels to me that our actions have had zero effect but I am at a loss as to what else to do that is legal.

Look at history when other fascist regimes moved in and ask yourself what a single, ordinary person at the time could have done to have prevented it.

I suspect (like history has shown), it's going to take as long as it takes until enough of us can collectively shut the shit down. In the mean time my gestures will, sadly, have nearly zero impact.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#762

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

zahlman wrote: post #247
duxup wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE has regularly attacked protesters and bystanders who are simply recording, walking away and so on. Even people just driving through their neighborhood have been dragged out of their vehicles and apprehended. Citizen or otherwise doesn’t seem to matter. They aren’t professionals and operate with neither the training, nor the will to obey the law. Much of the time they seem to believe trying to bait folks into an e…

> ICE has regularly attacked protesters and bystanders who are simply recording, walking away and so on. > Even people just driving through their neighborhood have been dragged out of their vehicles and apprehended. Citizen or otherwise doesn’t seem to matter. I have seen many claims of this sort, but every single time there's been video available of the incident, it's become clear to me that nothing of the sort is g…

> I have seen many claims of this sort, but every single time there's been video available of the incident, it's become clear to me that nothing of the sort is going on.

Have you considered the potential bias that people are dragged out of their cars before they can start recording video? Perhaps the dragging out of the car happens while nobody is recording them, then people see and start recording for posterity. That seems an obvious assumption. Do you have reason to think otherwise such that you can dismiss others' reports with intellectual honesty rather than motivated reasoning?

> This comment, like many others I've made on the topic, has been completely illegitimately flagged. I'm getting rather tired of that.

> It perhaps just doesn't agree with your point of view.

I don't really agree with the flags but this casual dismissal of "you just don't like it" is not helping you to understand the actual reasons others may have to flag (and downvote, which I do agree with). For example, maybe others watched the videos and think there is no way to justify what they saw. To such an individual, seeing someone try to justify it might look like trolling regardless of said someone's self-perception of their commentary. You will get nowhere merely complaining about the flags and downvotes; they will keep coming (on this topic) until you start to comment more thoughtfully (on this topic), or not at all.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#763

Post by heavyset_go »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #738
heavyset_go wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They aren’t professionals and operate with neither the training, nor the will to obey the law. Many of them are experienced and trained. The man who shot Renee Good served in Iraq, worked for Border Patrol for two decades and was literally a firearms instructor[1]. This is just what cops, reactionaries and psychopaths will do when they know that they have carte blanche to do anything they want, including murder. No…

Yes. Stepping in front of cars to give reason to shoot occupants was a repeated pattern in the Border Patrol, while against standard practice for most law enforcement. So assuming it's random lack of training when he does it again seem far too charitable.

Citation for anyone interested[1].

He also has a history of doing exactly this before. It's the second time he was "struck" by a moving vehicle after purposely putting himself in his purported harms way. Who knows how many times he's practiced for this murder before.

If the video somehow didn't do it, the "fucking bitch" not even seconds after pulling the trigger would put any one of us away for murder.

[1] https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/us-border-agents-i...

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#764

Post by RealityVoid »

Whatarethese wrote: post #650

In a few short years some of these ICE workers will be brought up on charges and sentences for their crimes. Just because no one has the gaul to arrest them today doesn't mean they won't in the future. No statute of limitations here.

You are terribly optimistic. I think they will face no consequences and the violence will escalate even more. I _could_ be overreacting, but I'm afraid we're on the cusp of something horrible.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#767

Post by burnt-resistor »

int_19h wrote: post #679
nullocator wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unfortunate truth I think is that no matter how many people might be with this idea of just "rising up" and taking back the country, america is is fucking massive and many cities and towns there is no noticeable ice or border patrol presence. So even if you can get people out and protesting at some common meaningless locations its going to be symbolic at best. If you want out-of-band change in the U.S. it will at…

Street protests are useless because they don't actually hurt. They only work if they can shame the other side, but the other side isn't actually ashamed of what they are doing. The kind of protest that is needed is the kind that is actually disruptive. Nationwide strikes, for instance.

Economic protests, by contrast, are extremely effective, e.g., Jimmy Kimmel.

Money is the most important thing the corrupt establishment and its masters care about. (Rich people hedged their bets, so both D and R have their shares of corruption.)

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#768

Post by [deleted] »

maxerickson wrote: post #294
toomuchtodo wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, whatever it takes. You somehow think it’s incredulous when Pornhub was deplatformed from credit card rails easily, and is still age gated in 23 states through statute. This is far worse, and laws can be made to do whatever the target outcome is. I get it, your mental model differs, and that’s fine. The tools exist and can be used. They could start by blacklisting the BIN of any federal government payment card,…

You are proposing that every customer identify themself for every transaction, and that every store verifies that identity against a state maintained list. "Stop their payment cards" just makes things a little inconvenient for the bad guys. What you are proposing makes everything very inconvenient for everyone. Mental models differ indeed.

[deleted]

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#769

Post by tomhow »

foldr wrote: post #745
tomhow wrote: post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be honest: you're doing much more than "suggesting". The whole reason we can't have these posts on the front page is that the comments in the threads so frequently break the guidelines and turn the site into a place that repels people who want to have thoughtful discussions. So there is no yet-known way to have our cake and eat it; the presence of these stories on the front page means abandoning the site's rule…

The discussion on this thread has actually been fine, apart from one account that has been all over the place repeating absolute nonsense (consistent with their overall recent post history on political topics). Most of their posts have already been flagged, and much of the resulting noise could have been avoided by rate limiting them. So I’m not sure that this particular discussion really proves your point (though it…

> HN sometimes seems to spend more energy decrying the current state of the UK than that of the US, despite the relative imbalance in user numbers.

I have to assume this perception has mostly to do with the time of day you're normally looking at HN. As someone who is looking at the threads for hours each day, there's certainly far more politics-related discussion about the U.S. than any other country.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#770

Post by JKCalhoun »

direwolf20 wrote: post #608
yongjik wrote: post #193

At the rate things are going, I wonder if America can hold together until the midterm. The Trump regime is acting like it wants a civil war. If anyone told me in 2024 that America may see its own Tiananmen, I'd have laughed, but I'm not so sure now. I can totally see something similar at a smaller scale, and millions of Americans defending it with "it was necessary to keep law and order."

Genuine question: is this not a civil war? If this isn't a civil war, what is the difference between this and a civil war?

In the U.S. Civil War several states joined together to break from the nation. I'm not seeing anything like that here.

I am seeing a cold civil war with Pacific states banding together for health initiatives. And states gerrymandering their districts prompting other states to then gerrymander theirs in response. That kind of cold civil war.

Minnesota now calling up their state's national guard is the first sign I see of the cold civil war warming up.

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