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Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

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Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#761

Post by 86769928329709 »

onli wrote: post #443
nosianu wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what about this? It is a question, not meant as a counter. Although I have to say the rosy picture some paint here about the high incomes is counter to anything I ever heard - and saw, although I left the US in the early 2000s, after having lived there for almost a decade (still mostly paid from Germany, never ready to make a complete move). "Medical Bankruptcies by Country 2025" https://worldpopulationreview.com/…

Careful there, thats a rightwing propaganda point. Immigration into an aging society does not raise healthcare costs, it lowers it. See https://archive.is/XxfTH (and note that this is a NZZ article, a right-wing publication by now, so not slanted towards being immigration friendly).

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Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#762

Post by caycep »

the nice thing about Medicare is that if he was +65 y/o Medicare patient, the hospital is not allowed to do this. If you are an American and under 65 and make too much money to be covered by medicaid, then you are vulnerable...

Also...having heard a talk given by the hospital administrator's association lobby...you can kinda get a sense where this funny math comes from....

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#763

Post by hedora »

marcosdumay wrote: post #357
fsckboy wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A code is not an artistic expression and so can't be copyrightable. that was changed https://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/database.html Databases are generally protected by copyright law as compilations. Under the Copyright Act, a compilation is defined as a "collection and assembling of preexisting materials or of data that are selected in such a way that the resulting work as a whole constitutes an original work of a…

That means the organization and selection of data is copyrightable, and only if they are creative. If you write your own tags for the codes, and makes a compilation of them all, none of that will cover your database.

Also, I think the bitlaw interpretation is incorrect. “Sweat of the brow” doesn’t magically produce copyright protection, and they don’t mention that.

Taking their example, if you had a collections from quotes from presidents, and I got a bunch of similar collections, then made my own ultimate definitive collection based partially on your list, then there’s very little chance I’d be liable for violating your copyright. If I copied the list and typesetting verbatim, you’d have a better case.

Also, modern rulings about LLM training (the topic of this thread) certainly mean copyrights on compilations of facts don’t survive training + inference cycles.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#764

Post by jmspring »

diob wrote: post #671
magicalhippo wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relative recently had their baby come several months early. The baby needed intensive care for a couple of months, and breathing support (CPAP) for another two. Mom lived at the hospital hotel for the duration. Baby got regular inspections of the heart, lungs and eyes (too much oxygen in the blood can lead to problems with the cornea or something), including after checkout. They got billed exactly zero. Both parents…

A lot of folks are looking at the higher US comp but aren't correctly pricing in the long-term risk. You can be fine for years, but a single, major medical event can zero out those salary gains and lead directly to bankruptcy. It's a systemic flaw that isn't obvious until it's your turn to deal with it.

If one lives in a state like CA, the taxes (income, sales, etc) basically are equal to that of Norway/etc. The downside, we don't get any real benefit from those taxes paid out.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#765

Post by epistasis »

no_wizard wrote: post #692
epistasis wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What lobbyists are opposed to universal healthcare? It seems to instead be merely a wedge issue in culture war. Republicans firmly oppose it, Democratic politicians fight for it, and apparently voters don't care enough to advocate for what they say they want in polls.

Off the top of my head: - The Partnership for America's Health Care Future - American Hospital Association - U.S. Chamber of Commerce - Various lobbying organizations related to private insurance and adjacent systems, like pharmacy benefit management organizations Politico has a great article about the Medicare For All fight[0] The opposition spent hundreds of millions of dollars fighting it. [0]: https://www.politic…

Thanks for this article, it's great! Back from before Politico became so one-sided partisan...

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#766

Post by BurningFrog »

egorfine wrote: post #253
chrisgeleven wrote: post #245

I fought insurance over this past summer after they declined covering a life saving surgery for my 6-year-old child at the last minute. We were in despair that my child's life was at risk each day we waited because of insurance incompetence. ChatGPT literally guided me through the whole external appeal process, who to contact outside of normal channels to ask for help / apply pressure, researched questions I had, hel…

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In European countries the procedures that are denied or very expensive in the US are often simply not offered. There is a national health budget, and not everything fits in it. The doctors have to tell the patients that there is nothing they can do, and that's that.

The patient ends up just as dead, but there is nothing to get furious about like when the doctors could fix it, but only if someone pays for it.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#767

Post by galangalalgol »

tboyd47 wrote: post #732
egorfine wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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It's not a democracy. You were told wrong, it's a republic.

Well it was a democratic republic. Now it is an electoral autocracy. He fixed it so good those christians will never have (or be able) to vote again. Just like he said he would. A Republic where the representatives are chosen by a popular vote are still democracies.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#769

Post by ern »

This is the exact sort of performative garbage that LLMs are great for. I had to do an electrical install, but the installer felt that the code required additional work (I don't think he was trying to rip us off, he sincerely believed it, since it's a volume business model).

I got ChatGPT to come up with some plausible interpretations of the electrical code that allowed the install to continue, including citations. I don't know how accurate it all was, but I sent the argument off to the installer, and he came back and did the work the next day. Even if it gets audited, the chances of the auditor picking apart the arguments are probably slim to none. He has plausible deniability.

This is also why schools and colleges are struggling. No one expected superficially "high quality" work from average and poor students, and now that they have to carefully evaluate everyone's work, they've been caught with their pants down.

Someday superficial AIs will talk to other superficial AIs and they'll deadlock, requiring humans back into the mix. Until then, it's a useful way to do bureaucratic judo.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#770

Post by jmspring »

This is interesting. In the past 1/2 dozen years, I've ended up in the hospital twice (both via ER, one at Stanford, one at Dominican in Santa Cruz). In both cases, I was there for ~3 days (I push to get myself out as quickly as I can). We ended up paying barely anything (decent insurance), but the bills were interesting in what they charge and for what.

The Stanford visit was predated by a two night stay at Eastern Plumas Hospital (rural, interesting experience). EPH wanted as much for two days and Stanford charged for three. Seeing the billed amount and what insurance agreed to in each case was enlightening -- basically 1/3-1/2.

I would not want to deal with fighting this if I was chronically ill.

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