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Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

businessinsider.com

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Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#761

Post by rwmj »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #528
dragonwriter wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RTO mandates are about many things, but actual business value of being in the office to the business doing the mandate is low on the list. Among the things it is about: (1) Executives with emotional attachment to certain leadership styles that are enabled by physical presence, (2) Interest in the investor class for the commercial real estate market. The business impacted may not be invested in it, but the businesses’…

It is hilarious that people think the second largest company on the planet, with a market cap over $5 trillion, spends even one second worry about the profit margins of commercial real estate companies, makes any decisions based on that, or is somehow cowed by their alleged political power despite being much, much, much smaller than Microsoft.

You're right that it probably doesn't apply to Microsoft, but some companies were granted tax breaks by the local city, but on the condition they brought a certain number of jobs to the city.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#762

Post by blacklion »

realusername wrote: post #744
blacklion wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the simple and boring answer is it really depends Yep, people are different. > are way more productive remotely Is this measured, or they are feel more productive? (I think, answer is the same: there is full spectrum here and somebody is less productive but feels more productive and somebody is really more productive and, maybe, feels the same :-)) But my previous team (where I worked at the peak of COVID)…

Depends of your company, I personally meet my team roughly every 3 months and I push back any task on the calendar because I know the days in the office aren't even half the productivity of the usual remote days. I even avoid big deployments during these days. Remote is usually all focused work and the office time is mostly coffee chats and random interruptions of unrelated subjects because on how much easier it is t…

Open space is PURE EVIL. Don't have fixed working place where you could leave your headphones (and external DAC in my case), cup, charging wires for your gadgets (not everything is USB-C still), some papers, etc is PURE EVIL too. Combined together it is ninth circle of hell.

Never worked in open space and refused (otherwise good) offers twice due to open space in office.

Culture in which everybody can ping anybody at any time is bad too. It is why I speak about cooler chat (when person already distracted), not any chat :-)

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#763

Post by BozeWolf »

blacklion wrote: post #714

It is funny to see how in one (IT) culture there is two narratives, often supported by same people: 1) Office is bad, people more productive working remote from their homes, and corporate C-levels issue and enforce RTO, which is silly and anti-productive. 2) All jokes about Zoom/Meet/Teams, with all these «Each meeting consists of “are you hear me?” questions», etc. Maybe, I'm unique (I'm sure I'm not), but I was twi…

Oh, I agree fully. I enjoy going to office. I also enjoy WFH. But after two days of WFH I am so bored.

Like many above like to call managers 'managers' I like to call developers/devopsengineers/* 'IT people'. Office is not a 'manager' or 'c-suite' thing. Put it differently: not going to office is an 'IT people' thing.

Being productive is not only the number of lines of code you crank out. Being productive is cranking out the right lines of code. You need to communicate for that. Casually joining a few colleagues talking about work delivers so much value. Maybe make a few decisions without planning a meeting. That is productive!

It is also not only about being productive, It is also about having fun with my team or colleagues. But I also like to sense how my team members are behaving, are people super tired? Are they happy? Etc etc.

Oh and the good old whiteboard sessions, I love them and I miss them.

If I tell my non 'it people' friends my colleagues only want to go to office max 1 time a week... or not at all, most friends call it crazy.

Tomorrow to the office again, yes! 45 minute lunch walk through the city... Close the door at 17:00 and call it a day! Love it!

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#764

Post by horns4lyfe »

thedevilslawyer wrote: post #514
gedy wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So pay me enough to afford a home nearby so I can work in the office. Hell, I'll wear a suit too. Oh, I can only get enough to commute in from an exurb 1+ hour commute each way? Buzz off. Been working since the 80s, and no company has ever paid me enough to buy anything nearby. So I gave up 15 yrs ago and now work full remote where I could afford something.

To be fair, we're the highest paid profession, and the work isn't that difficult either.

And it’s still not enough to buy houses close to the offices. So something is wrong

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#765

Post by laurels-marts »

blacklion wrote: post #714

It is funny to see how in one (IT) culture there is two narratives, often supported by same people: 1) Office is bad, people more productive working remote from their homes, and corporate C-levels issue and enforce RTO, which is silly and anti-productive. 2) All jokes about Zoom/Meet/Teams, with all these «Each meeting consists of “are you hear me?” questions», etc. Maybe, I'm unique (I'm sure I'm not), but I was twi…

You’re not alone. I absolutely love going to office every day but also love the flexibility to occasionally wfh if needed. I just feel like when I enter the office and put on my “unreachable” focus mode on I’m in the zone and very productive. At home there’s endless distractions (my cats make sure to check in with me every time get too focused). Also I do like interacting with colleagues. I think I started liking going to office even more once I broke up with my gf that was living with me for 4 years. Something about working the entire day from my apartment completely alone is… not appealing to my social side of the brain.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#766

Post by yepitwas »

moralestapia wrote: post #406
SoftTalker wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is, I get more done at the office than at home. And if I’m dressed professionally, I get more done and I get better responses from others than when I’m wearing shorts and a tee shirt. I’d prefer to work from home wearing pajamas but I can sympathize with why my employer wants me in the office and may even have a dress code. Be glad you didn’t work in the development office of a bank in the 1990s, you’…

>And if I’m dressed professionally, I get more done and I get better responses from others than when I’m wearing shorts and a tee shirt. Are you a butler? No offense. No one in tech would give two f...s about what you're wearing when you push git commits.

I once moved to a company that still mandated relatively formal work clothes—suit and tie no longer required, but still seen fairly often.

The first casual Friday I was struck now how energized I felt as soon as I walked in (and I didn’t participate, I wore slacks and a blazer that day).

Reflecting on that, I realized that I actually associate jeans and such with “professional office that gets shit done”. Because that’s how it’d been everywhere else I’d worked.

The “professional” dress code was having exactly the opposite effect on me, from what it was supposed to.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#767

Post by poszlem »

blacklion wrote: post #714

It is funny to see how in one (IT) culture there is two narratives, often supported by same people: 1) Office is bad, people more productive working remote from their homes, and corporate C-levels issue and enforce RTO, which is silly and anti-productive. 2) All jokes about Zoom/Meet/Teams, with all these «Each meeting consists of “are you hear me?” questions», etc. Maybe, I'm unique (I'm sure I'm not), but I was twi…

You’re speaking from a very privileged position. A 15–20 minute commute and an office with a canteen is not the reality for most workers. Many spend 1–3 hours daily stuck in traffic or on crowded trains, which is pure wasted time. Add in rising transport costs, pollution, and the fact that not everyone can afford to live near their workplace, and commuting becomes one of the biggest drains on productivity and well-being.

So while it’s great that the office works for you, dismissing WFH as “less productive” ignores the fact that for many people, it’s the only way they can actually be productive, stay healthy, and remain in the workforce at all.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#768

Post by Aeolun »

vovavili wrote: post #647
randomfool wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a source closely involved with this- Amazon tracks many productivity metrics of employees and was seeing very significant differences between in-person and remote people, which drove the decision. Source left since so I don’t know how much productivity has improved. Advice to new grads: get into the office 5 days a week for at least a few years.

Why is it that these "sources" always remain anonymous and outside the possibility of an external review?

Presumably because they’d be punished for sharing such information and you don’t rat out your friends?

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#769

Post by poszlem »

laurels-marts wrote: post #765
blacklion wrote: post #714

It is funny to see how in one (IT) culture there is two narratives, often supported by same people: 1) Office is bad, people more productive working remote from their homes, and corporate C-levels issue and enforce RTO, which is silly and anti-productive. 2) All jokes about Zoom/Meet/Teams, with all these «Each meeting consists of “are you hear me?” questions», etc. Maybe, I'm unique (I'm sure I'm not), but I was twi…

You’re not alone. I absolutely love going to office every day but also love the flexibility to occasionally wfh if needed. I just feel like when I enter the office and put on my “unreachable” focus mode on I’m in the zone and very productive. At home there’s endless distractions (my cats make sure to check in with me every time get too focused). Also I do like interacting with colleagues. I think I started liking goi…

It’s completely fine to prefer the office, that’s your choice and it works for you. The problem isn’t people going in, it’s when companies force everyone to go. Reading your post, it almost sounds like you want others dragged back just to fill the gap left in your own private life. That’s not a good reason to mandate office work for everyone.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#770

Post by b3kart »

valleyjo wrote: post #703
noremotefornow wrote: post #612

I have worked for 7 years in the office and 7 years remote, and for me the 7 years remote were not as enjoyable. I like the routines and processes that I adhere to more when I have a separate work location; I find it more difficult to adhere to those same processes when I can roll out of bed and walk to my computer half asleep and zone in on work. For example, I find it much more likely I’ll consistently shower, get…

I strongly prefer RTO for myself personally. I can’t stand working from home. I believe the solution is have a shorter commute and live closer to the office (even though I live far away, I am trying to convince my wife to move). I have mixed feelings about forcing RTO because I know some strongly prefer WFH. Maybe 2 or 3 days is the best middle ground. Personally I miss when everyone was at the office 5 days a week.

> solution is have a shorter commute and live closer to the office

With a short commute, a private office, and environment conducive to both focused work and collaboration as required, I imagine a lot more folks would be happy to RTO. However, this is not the reality for most who are asked to waste hours commuting (or uproot families to move closer) to sit surrounded by noise and distraction.

I suspect “I miss when everyone was at the office 5 days a week” is behind many of these RTO mandates, and I am not sure the sacrifice made by people (like you) who don’t get to see colleagues quite as often is balanced against the sacrifice made by folks who have to uproot their whole lives or waste hours per day commuting.

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