Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The $25k car is going extinct?

media.hubspot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

761–770 of 1001 posts

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#761

Post by atoav »

tlogan wrote: post #577

This is a great example of how factually incorrect narratives - so long as they align with a preferred agenda (which is that things are not affordable any more) - it gets upvoted. Reality check: - In 2025, there are 12 new car models available under $25,000 - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) So the premise that “cars used to be much more affordable” is not true. This…

Yes, only inflation is not the only thing you need to factor in. If you really want to answer the question of "are people correct in complaing about car prices?", you need to factor in how much money they have to spend on what.

A first ballpark figure would be calculating how much that pricebracket of car would be as a fraction of a median persons income or better even: how many hours they needed to work to get it – if you want to know if something is harder to get, this is the crucial info.

Just adjusting inflation like that is doing exactly what you critique others for only from the other direction..

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#762

Post by wavemode »

dudeinhawaii wrote: post #751
tlogan wrote: post #577

This is a great example of how factually incorrect narratives - so long as they align with a preferred agenda (which is that things are not affordable any more) - it gets upvoted. Reality check: - In 2025, there are 12 new car models available under $25,000 - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) So the premise that “cars used to be much more affordable” is not true. This…

While we're being data driven - the narrative isn't far off from reality. Looking at inflation in isolation is also misleading. Plainly, prices have risen faster than pay. Avg. new-car price: $23,017 in 2005 -> $47,465 in 2024 (+32% after inflation). Median household income: $46,242 in 2005 -> $80,610 in 2023 (+12% after inflation).

Average new car price is very misleading. When you buy a car, they don't charge you the average, they charge you what the specific car you're buying costs. If there are a dozen cheap car options for sale, it is irrelevant to me that there are also some more expensive options for sale.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#764

Post by LUmBULtERA »

kube-system wrote: post #736
LUmBULtERA wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Americans are not offered a $10k new car, so it's impossible to know they won't buy them.

You could get a Mirage on discount at many dealer's lots for 10k just a few years ago, they weren't hot sellers. They were selling at 4% of the volume of the Camry. Drive one and it's immediately obvious why Americans weren't buying them.

Few years ago? Okay, few is 2 or 3 years. I see MSRP for a base model of Mirage in 2023 was $16,245... 2022 was $14,625? When I was buying a car in that time period, there were no discounts below MSRP anywhere I looked for almost anything. Especially anything cheap. I've read a lot of reports of big mark ups for even Mirage's during that time period.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#765

Post by bumby »

kube-system wrote: post #705
bumby wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CVTs are generally less reliable than traditional transmissions, especially under heavy loads. You get better mpg in exchange. You don’t have an alternator, but you have a much more expensive electric motor. You don’t have a turbocharger, but in exchange you lose performance at highway speeds. So like most engineering problems, it’s all about tradeoffs.

Despite the name, "eCVT"s are mechanically unrelated to the CVTs used in gasoline cars. They are mechanically similar to a differential, and have extremely low failure rates.

Thanks for clarifying! It does seem like the planetary design would be more reliable (but the point able heavy loads may still apply)

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#766

Post by madcaptenor »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #759
dudeinhawaii wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're being data driven - the narrative isn't far off from reality. Looking at inflation in isolation is also misleading. Plainly, prices have risen faster than pay. Avg. new-car price: $23,017 in 2005 -> $47,465 in 2024 (+32% after inflation). Median household income: $46,242 in 2005 -> $80,610 in 2023 (+12% after inflation).

This still doesn't tell the whole story You need car interest rates to understand actual "car affordability" at any particular time. ZIRP era was far cheaper than right now where most new cars are 6% for highly qualified buyers (800+ credit rating) Also, cars today last longer, have more features for your dollar, and are significantly safer and in many cases (i.e. toyota small cars like the corolla) can get 50+ mpg w…

A simple adjustment of (average new car cost)/(average lifespan of car in miles) would be a good start.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#767

Post by Der_Einzige »

bumby wrote: post #500
alerighi wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if they would make a basic car like in the past I would buy it. Everyone has to sell you too much, I want a simple car, I don't want either the stereo, I will add my own later (I can put it one that is better than the factory one for a cheaper price, but in a modern car replacing the stereo is almost impossible). There are a ton of useless sensors, the sensor that tells you if you have a flat tire (I think I can…

Some of those “useless” sensors like tire pressure or backup camera are required by law. Even if you get a bare bones hatchback (manual transmission, manual locks, manual windows etc.) they’ll be forced to include those.

Honestly, good! I am so tired of these insane "I want nothing but an engine" spiritual boomers. They are making the road far more dangerous for everyone.

Yes, I will force you to have automatic emergency breaking in your Model T hotrod. Yes, you will be mad. Yes, the road will be a lot safer. No I don't care about your boomer rage about technology. No you don't want to live with India tier road laws/standards - even if - and especially if - you think you do!

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#768

Post by bumby »

vel0city wrote: post #703
bumby wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate further? A hybrid, by definition, combines an ICE and electric drivetrain. While I understand it could be designed for a more efficient range of operation* how could it negate the downsides of an ICE-only design if it requires an ICE? (Are we conflating EV and hybrid?) * This also means each segment is less globally efficient, meaning the system is less efficient if it has to limp along if one par…

The pure ICE transmission is probably far more mechanically complicated than the transmission of a series hybrid. The pure ICE engine and transmission has to deal with some of the most stressful times the motor can handle, extremely high torque demands coming from a stop. Its far less stressful for an electric motor to generate good torque at such low RPMs. Just two quick examples.

I think you’re still conflating EVs and hybrids. A hybrid has an ICE that is distinct from the mechanical transmission. Hybrids tend to run off the ICE at high speeds because it’s more efficient and use the ICE to charge the battery.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#769

Post by ponector »

csomar wrote: post #672
jjice wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To share an anecdote on the more recent side of the spectrum, I bought a new 2025 Toyota Corolla LE two months ago. It's probably the cheapest vehicle Toyota makes. My cost before tax and title (not sure if that should be included or not) was $23k. It's a pretty great car. Highway averages like 45-50 MPH (25-35 city), it's comfortable, has Car Play, and everything else you'd expect in a car now. I'll say that the two…

I think the problem here is that we are comparing against price inflation (not salary inflation). If every company increased its prices, then that's the inflation. Customers will feel ripped off if their salaries didn't at least match inflation. In other words, if your salary in 2005 was $50k when Mazda was $13k; then your salary should be $82k for a $22k Mazda3 to be the same price. Currently, a Mazda3 starts at $24…

But you should compare the same cars. I bet 13k was for a basic trim, with manual, less powerful engine etc.

Car of 2025 has lots of features even in basic trims.

My first car had no ac, no power steering, no power window, etc. And I'm not that old...

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#770

Post by lan321 »

bumby wrote: post #601
Lev1a wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK some automakers also cut down on the number of sensors by doing stuff like reading the already implemented sensor(s) for the ABS to provide the tire pressure warning function.

That becomes circular logic because ABS is also required by law

Eh, you really don't want a car without ABS, though. For motorcycles, I kinda get it since you can't do some stunts with ABS, but on a car, it has zero benefit nowadays. Mandatory ABS, seatbelts and airbags would be the big things for me, followed by sexy, modern ESP, TC for powerful RWD cars and collision warning beeper (no autobrake at high speed, that shit's deadly and I hate that it can't be permanently disabled separate to the beeper).
Post reply on HN