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I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

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Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#761

Post by indrora »

colechristensen wrote: post #723
camdenreslink wrote: post #259

New York State just passed universal free lunch and breakfast for public school students. Of all the things that we spend our tax dollars on, this feels like a no brainer. Making sure children are fed should be at the top of the list.

Minnesota did so in 2023, it's working great. And importantly emphasizing "universal", we're not spending a bunch of money on the bureaucracy of figuring out who gets it and who qualifies and hearing people complain about fraud. They're kids, everybody gets it, nobody set up a test as to which gets get free food. I pay both MN and NY taxes and couldn't be happier about this expenditure.

If I recall correctly, the MN movement started with St. Paul Public Schools doing it and their test scores (as a result) shooting through the roof.

I know that free breakfast is another thing that Minnesota did, apparently?

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#762

Post by Tarsul »

umeshunni wrote: post #755
nothercastle wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America even if we enacted this the kids would get meals that are terrible like 10$ chicken strips, hotdogs and fake pizza

Huh? We have free lunch in all schools in California and they serve everything from pizza to burritos to hamburgers.

Ummm... that's not quite the retort you think it is.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#763

Post by Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe »

umeshunni wrote: post #756
Suppafly wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But you don't have to pay for a gratuitous system of bureaucracy This is what's frustrating about America. There is so much bureaucracy that exists only to pay for itself, and I suppose, provide a few jobs, but you're an unreasonable socialist if you point out that it'd be cheaper just to not keep track of who needs to pay and give food to everyone for free instead.

And yet when someone tries to cut down bureaucracy, it's called fascism and people start burning cars.

The concept of cutting costs of things is totally orthogonal to political opinions. Fascism and bureaucracy are not really related, it's just that there are fascist ways to do things.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#764

Post by noworriesnate »

dragonwriter wrote: post #675
Suppafly wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But you don't have to pay for a gratuitous system of bureaucracy This is what's frustrating about America. There is so much bureaucracy that exists only to pay for itself, and I suppose, provide a few jobs, but you're an unreasonable socialist if you point out that it'd be cheaper just to not keep track of who needs to pay and give food to everyone for free instead.

> This is what's frustrating about America. There is so much bureaucracy that exists only to pay for itself, and I suppose, provide a few jobs, No, it exists to prevent people from receiving public services , both by its direct operation and indirectly by making the service more painful to use so people who would be entitled to use it nevertheless avoid it.

For the first part, that will always be necessary. The people are supposed to decide through indirect democracy who is qualified to receive welfare.

But your second point is very true. It can be very painful to interact with the bureaucracy, something people shouldn’t have to deal with when they’re at the bottom of the barrel.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#765

Post by colechristensen »

indrora wrote: post #761
colechristensen wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minnesota did so in 2023, it's working great. And importantly emphasizing "universal", we're not spending a bunch of money on the bureaucracy of figuring out who gets it and who qualifies and hearing people complain about fraud. They're kids, everybody gets it, nobody set up a test as to which gets get free food. I pay both MN and NY taxes and couldn't be happier about this expenditure.

If I recall correctly, the MN movement started with St. Paul Public Schools doing it and their test scores (as a result) shooting through the roof. I know that free breakfast is another thing that Minnesota did, apparently?

It's both breakfast and lunch.

It built upon programs during covid that provided food for kids when schools were closed.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#766

Post by em-bee »

tc43 wrote: post #252
aetherspawn wrote: post #251

I might be misunderstanding the problem but in Australia the parents send the kids to school with packed lunches proportional to the household income… fancy lunches for rich kids, and rice or bread for poor kids.

Or proportional to the household eating habits. I'm definitely in the upper income bracket of my son's state primary school and he brings a sandwich and a piece of fruit like every other kid because it's a sensible amount of food for a small child.

when does your son come home and when (and what) is his next meal?

a sandwich is enough for a mid morning snack, but not for a midday meal unless the kids get another meal right when they come home. traditional wisdom has it that you should have a good breakfast and lunch, and a smaller meal for dinner. that's possible when the kids come home no later than 2pm but if they usually come home at 3-4pm or later then a sandwich is not enough to get them through the day.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#767

Post by [deleted] »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #289
delfinom wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will blow your fucking mind. The entire economic future of you and all the taxpayers depends on those kids growing up. Our entire economic structure is a ponzi scheme at global scale. It depends on kids growing up and cashing into the stock market so people can cash out of their 401ks. So why not ensure those little gremlins and nice and plump when they grow up so we can retire more easily.

That's your argument? I have to finance other people's kids because otherwise the ponzi scheme collapses? Let it fall. No more ponzi schemes.

[deleted]

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#768

Post by [deleted] »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #289
delfinom wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will blow your fucking mind. The entire economic future of you and all the taxpayers depends on those kids growing up. Our entire economic structure is a ponzi scheme at global scale. It depends on kids growing up and cashing into the stock market so people can cash out of their 401ks. So why not ensure those little gremlins and nice and plump when they grow up so we can retire more easily.

That's your argument? I have to finance other people's kids because otherwise the ponzi scheme collapses? Let it fall. No more ponzi schemes.

[deleted]

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#769

Post by GuinansEyebrows »

BoingBoomTschak wrote: post #478
framapotari wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm in favor of free school lunches for kids. But I'm very annoyed with the strawmanning in this thread. For example, it seems like a strawman to say that people who are against free school lunches "want kids to go hungry". Maybe they just believe that parents should be responsible rather than the state. If parents are responsible then the children of the parents who can't or won't provide will go hungry. That is a…

Look into the expression "perverse incentive". Maybe he doesn't want people so thoughtless they'd make children without being able to feed them to do so? Also, too many Americans blindly praising socialism without knowing its consequences in the deep end. It's not all rainbows and butterflies.

i don't think you understand what socialism is. government assistance programs are not socialism.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#770

Post by GuinansEyebrows »

switch007 wrote: post #564
camgunz wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For every story about it being difficult to claim, there are plenty about people who haven't worked for 20 years who have received over £400,000 in welfare This is perfectly accurate: the stories you hear make these issues out to be equal, when in fact they're anything but. Study after study shows that work requirements (the policy you're implicitly advocating for here) do not work: https://www.cbpp.org/research/po…

FWIW I do more than "hear" about these "stories". My figures weren't just made up. Personal experience but I'm not saying more than that

so, you anecdotally know enough people who are somehow receiving benefits you don't think they deserve to tip the scale by a statistically relevant amount?
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