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U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

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Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not concern trolling. I don’t want a single U.S. soldier on Ukraine soil. It’s a red line. I’m asking whether a security guarantee increases the risk of that happening.

Ah, ok, it's a red line for you. Good that you make that explicit, but you are being a thrifty with information there. This site is for curious conversation, so I'd love to see you elucidate a bit further! What's the nature of the red line? For instance, Are you worried they'd get hurt? Are you worried about political implications? Or, does the fact that there are already American volunteers to fighting in Ukraine ch…

I don’t want the U.S. to bear the cost (in money and lives) of a war that doesn’t directly relate to protecting the american homeland. I think U.S. foreign policy has been a failure since the 1950s—we shouldn’t have gone to war in Korea, Vietnam, Kuwait, Iraq, etc. The only justifiable war in that time, in my opinion, was Afghanistan, where the Taliban harbored terrorists that had attacked the U.S.

I think the premise of a “rules based international order” and democracy promotion hurts Americans. In Iraq and Syria it led us to overthrow dictators who were brutal to their own people and threatened their neighbors, but who suppressed terrorists that could attack the U.S. It also causes tremendous collateral damage (millions of dead civilians). While I acknowledge that Ukraine presents less risk of those things, to me it’s a test case. If we can’t resist involvement in Ukraine, there is little hope of turning the ship around on American imperialism generally. The next Iraq War will also be billed as a just war.

As of mid 2024, 2/3 of americans opposed sending US troops to Ukraine: https://globalaffairs.org/research/public-opinion-survey/ame....

I acknowledge that a security guarantee wouldn’t start with boots on the ground. But there is a historical pattern of deepening involvement where we start out with something like a security guarantee, and that becomes the rope around our ankle that drags us into putting boots on the ground.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just want the US to keep their word on promises already made. Is that so unreasonable? They gave up their nukes for it.

The nukes were never under Ukraine control or possession. It's like saying Turkey has nukes, they don't, they are US nukes.

> The nukes were never under Ukraine control or possession.

They were literally in their possession. hint: that's why negotiations were required for their transfer to Russia.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and if Russia threatens Ukraine with nukes if it joins NATO, is that a nuclear threat?

Yes. And when Russia did that the US was treaty bound to raise the issue of assistance with the security council. The US met this obligation and exceeded it. The US called an emergency session under resolution 2623. Exceeded the obligations by acting outside of the UN and security council to provide independent aid in funding. The memorandum requires that the US do nothing on its own, let alone provide unlimited assi…

It looks like the memorandum was like the proposed minerals deal where you give up something valuable in exchange for some vague promises?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not concern trolling. I don’t want a single U.S. soldier on Ukraine soil. It’s a red line. I’m asking whether a security guarantee increases the risk of that happening.

When Germany reoccupied the Rhineland in 1936, British and French forces could easily have rolled to Berlin and deposed Hitler. They didn't, for domestic political reasons that were no less catastrophic for being understandable (war-weary citizenry, plus wishful thinking about Hitler). The best time to have stood up to Putin was 2014. The next best time is right [expletive] now.

Whats the base rate of dictators being Hitler, and what’s the false positive rate of that approach? That thinking seems like it would’ve gotten us into every late 20th and early 21st war that are widely regarded as mistakes.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what a known, paid Russian asset would do differently as President of the US than Trump Well the obvious one is dropping Russian sanctions. Has Trump done this?

Timely! > March 3 (Reuters) - The United States is drawing up a plan to potentially give Russia sanctions relief as President Donald Trump seeks to restore ties with Moscow and stop the war in Ukraine, a U.S. official and another person familiar with the matter told Reuters. > The White House has asked the State and Treasury departments to draft a list of sanctions that could be eased for U.S. officials to discuss wi…

Nice find! Would have to evaluate what the quid pro quo is, to determine if Trump is acting as a paid asset.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#766
post #215
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are already drafting an end to sanctions, which is unbelievable.

Tarriff other countries and then establish a free trade agreement with Russia to boost their economy. One wonders if they will make American packaging for their products, or just sell the Russian labeled products straight on US shelves.

What are they going to sell us? Russia is a gas station.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#767
post #626

The USA stands in miserable disgrace.

I'm not sure what to think. Ukraine can't militarily defeat russia or reclaim its lost territory, and as long as it continues to try to do so, there will be war and the world will be less stable. But if a line is not drawn against russia, I think we have every reason to believe putin will continue to conquer more land over time. Russia is the source of instability, but it can't be defeated or reasoned with. What to d…

Russia cannot be defeated - it is a Putin narrative. Russian has been defeated many times in history. Even in this war Russian lost few battles, lost control of few cities.

In fact they are so powerful army, they are using civil vehicles and motorcycle as infantry vehicles for assault. Tanks made in Stalin's era also used.

Even donkeys are used for logistics!

Cannot be defeated? True, if western countries restrict usage of their weapons against Russian army.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop. Dude isn't interested in a real answer, he's concern trolling. He propogandizes his position over and over on this site.

I’m not concern trolling. I don’t want a single U.S. soldier on Ukraine soil. It’s a red line. I’m asking whether a security guarantee increases the risk of that happening.

Agreed 100%. No way should any American soldier be sent to fight in that war. It will be a never ending quagmire - both people and money. Full stop.

And, good luck getting any real discussion from anyone here. Most of the Redditors are here now and have brought their "hate on America" flag to HN. Regardless of how much our President does or how much the US gives, it will never be enough. And, the ironic thing is, many of these "intellectuals" on HN routinely put down our "uneducated" voter population while at the same time pleading for their tax dollars to fund a never ending war. Oh, the hypocrisy! As if their countries are any better.

At best, this war is at a stalemate unless the EU really steps up to the plate to save their neighbor. Imagine, your neighbor's house is burning down all around you, and the best you can do is give a cup of water while shouting at your distant relative across the ocean to send truck loads of water. If anything, they should be ashamed they let their countries fall so behind they have to rely on someone else to help defend their own property. Crazy!

Here's a hint for our EU friends: Step up and help your neighbor! Send all your money to fight the war (that is what you are asking the US tax payers for, right?). Drain your savings accounts, send them your retirement money, send everything you have - until it hurts. Next, go to your closet, put on your fighting boots, and head out to the front lines. The time for taking real action is now. Don't rely on foreign money, governments, boots, equipment, etc. to defend your own property. Rely on _yourselves_ to solve this problem.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#769

I don't know how much the US sent to Israel to fight in Gaza lately but palestinians in Gaza aren't exactly on the same level as the russian military, so the needs of Israel aren't even close to the military aid that went to Ukraine. But what I know and for a reality check: the amount of military aid the US sent to Israel since Israel exists is less than the amount of money sent by the US to Zelensky. In addition to…

do you refer numbers putin told you?

first link in google https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts

israel is 3x of ua. and ua is behind several other countries.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure what to think. Ukraine can't militarily defeat russia or reclaim its lost territory, (...) Are you sure about that? I mean, didn't Afghanistan forced Russia to retreat in defeat and leave the country? > and as long as it continues to try to do so, there will be war and the world will be less stable. All the more reason to help Ukraine finish the job and force Russia to leave. Ultimately, worst case sce…

> Are you sure about that? I mean, didn't Afghanistan forced Russia to retreat in defeat and leave the country? Logistics (Ukraine shares a large border with Russia) and people - the people in currently occupied Ukraine aren't as against Russia as those in Afghanistan may be. Even now, we don't really see much of sabotage. > All the more reason to help Ukraine finish the job and force Russia to leave. And how are you…

Collective defense was always an option. It's not like anyone has the appetite for that, but it's not hard as such to kick Russia out of Ukraine.
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