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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

bbc.com

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#761

Post by cryptonector »

seydor wrote: post #82

It looks like the US wants a regime change in Ukraine, it's possible that this became a pre condition from russia for talks to go forward. OTOH, a minerals deal with the US ensures that the US will have a stake in defending the postwar ukraine. Lots of drama and optics involved for sure, but it seems the outcome or the talks was predetermined JdVance will not last for long - is there procedure to replace him?

> JdVance will not last for long - is there procedure to replace him?

Why would he "not last long"? Who would remove him? Would they not also remove Trump if they could remove Vance?

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#762

Post by cryptonector »

entropyneur wrote: post #603

I have invested considerable personal resources into fighting for democracy in my country and ended up having to flee leaving behind a rather comfortable life. The United States has always been an inspiration despite its well-known flaws. Watching this situation unfold is very disturbing. And especially disheartening is the behavior of Republican representatives. A mere month ago these same people were Ukraine's best…

Is Ukraine currently a democracy?

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#763

Post by rmk »

The uncomfortable truth Donald Trump is finally articulating forcefully is that Europe built its welfare state under the US security umbrella, but then started getting cocky with antitrust actions, restricting American companies' access to their markets etc, while simultaneously doing next to nothing to secure their own neighborhood by investing in defense (France being a notable exception). Even if we charitably assume that they took 50 years to build back up from the destruction of world war 2, they have wasted the next 20-30 years with zero preparation or thought about their own defense.

No one did a thing when Crimea was taken. In fact, there was simply no firm response after Russia shot down the airplane brazenly. In fact, leaders such as Merkel further increased dependence on Russia by importing gas and integrating them deeply into Germany and many other EU countries' economies! Staggering incompetence and frank delusion!

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#764

Post by attentive »

TriangleEdge wrote: post #573

Maybe dumb question, but I asked ChatGPT search and didn't get a straight answer, so: Why is Russia at war with Ukraine? ChatGPT tells me it's because of "western alignment". Trump told reporters 1m people died. Seems a bit excessive to me for political ideas.. I'd have an easier time believing it's a resource conflict or some oil field being liberated or wtv.

to rebuild USSR aka russian empire. That includes EU "eastern block" countries.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#765

Post by gunian »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #10

Ukraine is in a bind, and the US has the power to do whatever it wants. But boy, will the nations of the world remember this -- how quickly the US can turn from ally to bully. A really bad day for US foreign policy. The EU is going to be thinking long and hard about the future of NATO now.

lol the world knows big guy DT did not invent this

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#766

Post by rmk »

trackone wrote: post #441

Things like this make it seem like China will be much more likely to try and retake Taiwan soon. Seeing things like this, it is hard to imagine that the US will help defend Taiwan by providing military aid. I can imagine that trump will try to ask for something in return first. Even something like trump asking for TSMC to be sold to trump supporters (musk and others) seems likely to happen.

And what exactly is wrong with that? Asking for TSMC to be sold to Americans?

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#767

Post by cryptonector »

GMoromisato wrote: post #270

I would like to know what the alternatives are. None that I can think of are palatable: 1. Support Ukraine enough so that Russia doesn't take too much more territory, but not enough for Russia to feel threatened and escalate the war. This was the Biden plan and it sounds like what Europe wants. I just don't see how this ends the war. Is this just buying time for someone to depose Putin? 2. Support Ukraine enough so i…

The U.S. abandoned Georgia in the 00s because it was indefensible.

The Ukraine is also very difficult to defend, especially since it seems like such a touchy issue for Russia. I doubt that Russia would go to full-scale nuclear war over Ukraine but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a small scale use of nuclear weapons on -say- Brussels. And if Russia makes enough of those Oreshnik missiles they could easily take out most of Europe's air forces in one go without going nuclear, and thus change the balance of power in Ukraine.

The question really is: at what price Ukraine?

Your (1), (2), and (3) are no solutions. Pausing the war now simply means escalating it later.

Depending on Trump's understanding of Russia's limits (I say Trump's because he might have a better understanding that the public), (4) may be the only workable option.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#768

Post by froggertoaster »

I know this will get lost, but regardless-

Read the comments on this thread.

Then read this post by Dan, where he explains why the post isn't ranked higher: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43212835

TLDR: lots of flags on this thread, despite the overwhelming number of comments that tend in one direction.

Think about that.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#770

Post by evo_9 »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #10

Ukraine is in a bind, and the US has the power to do whatever it wants. But boy, will the nations of the world remember this -- how quickly the US can turn from ally to bully. A really bad day for US foreign policy. The EU is going to be thinking long and hard about the future of NATO now.

Has anyone actually watched the entire conversation and not just the clip near the end?

I encourage everyone to do so:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7pxbGjvcdyY&pp=ygUbZnVsbCB6ZWx...

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