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"Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

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Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#761

Post by lenerdenator »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #751
arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

>However this part of the EO is pretty concerning >> 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later >> 'No employee of the executive branch acting in their official capacity may advance an interpretation of the law as the position of the United States that contravenes the President or t…

Difficulty:

This isn't the corporate world and the worst-case scenario here isn't being sued or taking a trip to bankruptcy court, it's the potential downfall of a nuclear-armed superpower.

Which is why business leaders, at least ones like Trump, need to be kept far, far away from government. The goal isn't to maximize value, it's to administer a society in a sustainable way.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#762

Post by lmm »

sterlind wrote: post #584
hiatus wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took it to mean that agencies no longer have the final say in interpretations of law when it comes to exercising executive power. So for instance if ATF says a banana is a machine gun and the president says "yes", then barring an act of Congress clarifying, it is. I don't see how you go from there to the end of judicial review?

If the Supreme Court rules against the Executive, they might order an agency to comply with a ruling or - barring that - hold an agency head in contempt. Under this EO, the agency wouldn't comply, since the agency would assume Trump's read of the law is correct - superceding even the Court's. If they tried to enforce a contempt order, the US Marshals would not comply either. Soldiers that swear allegiance to the Cons…

> Under this EO, the agency wouldn't comply, since the agency would assume Trump's read of the law is correct - superceding even the Court's. If they tried to enforce a contempt order, the US Marshals would not comply either.

Why? The Marshals enforce blatantly wrong court judgements all the time. Court judgements are court judgements, contempt orders are contempt orders, both can say almost anything. There's no interpreting the law part of enforcing a judgement or order - the court judgement is just as valid whether it's legally correct or not.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#763

Post by lenerdenator »

brightball wrote: post #759
arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

Ultimately, I expect this to be taken to the Supreme Court and reigned in.

Don't be surprised if the administration says something to the effect of "the court has made its ruling; let us see them enforce it."

That, or they're hoping that someone will sue so that SCOTUS makes this sort of EO precedent.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#764

Post by lmm »

marcosdumay wrote: post #242
tmpz22 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a false narrative that Obama was soft on immigration and even earned the nickname “deporter in chief”. In some ways he was even harder than Bush during the post 9/11 response. www.migrationpolicy.org/article/obama-record-deportations-deporter-chief-or-not It’s astounding the regularity over the last 100 years that conservatives have used immigration narratives to fire up their base regardless of what statistical…

It's complex. Obama may have deported lots of people, but Trump famously used the same institutions to detain and torture minors indefinitely... Which of those is "harder" against immigration? It's the same issue that is happening now. Biden deported a lot more people, but he focused on people entering the US or caught doing something. Trump is deporting a low fewer people, but he randomly taking people from their ho…

> Trump famously used the same institutions to detain and torture minors indefinitely

Are you talking about the "cages" that were built under Obama and continued under every president thereafter, including Biden? Or what?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#765

Post by teeray »

abrichr wrote: post #387
teeray wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

States of emergency should at least go to congress for renewal every 3 months as a measure to be voted on individually (cannot be tied, for example, to budgets). If that's not enough to kill it eventually, it should automatically become a ballot measure on the next Presidential Ballot after some number of renewals.

Emergencies must be renewed annually by the President. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_12170 : > The order was first declared on 14 November 1979 (EO 12170). At least 11 executive orders were based on this emergency state. The emergency, which was renewed in 2023 for the 44th time, is the "oldest existing state of emergency."

> Emergencies must be renewed annually by the President.

This is like agencies investigating themselves and inevitably finding themselves clear of any wrongdoing.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#766

Post by immibis »

crooked-v wrote: post #371
greyface- wrote: post #44

This is obviously alarming, and if used to disregard the Judiciary's interpretation of law, unconstitutional. But I'm puzzled by the exemption of the Federal Reserve and FOMC. He's previously beefed with them, and would presumably find the additional leverage useful. Why explicitly exclude them?

Because including them would cause an immediate worldwide economic crisis as everyone pulls their money from US bonds.

Why aren't they pre-emptively doing that?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#767

Post by jack_h »

matthewmcg wrote: post #659
khazhoux wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is this EO being issued? What problem, other than judicial review, does it solve for the executive branch? It is saying that for all matters where a law is not explicit and prescriptive, the WH shall provide the interpretation for the agency to follow. The WH is correct that (aside from judicial review, which is not at issue here) they have final authority over how to implement open-ended laws, and not the agen…

What about the constitutional directive that the President shall ensure that the laws are faithfully executed? Congress has prescribed how agencies may issue regulations and interpretations through statutes shouldn’t these statutes control?

Article II Section 1. The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America

It doesn't say "some of the executive power", nor does Article I mention anything about being able to create new executive powers vested in other entities. So if the president is the only one who has been vested with the executive power, how can a functionary of the executive promulgate a regulation that disagrees with the president? Ultimately the House can impeach and the Senate convict, possibly disqualifying them from federal office.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#768

Post by lojack »

somenameforme wrote: post #231
greyface- wrote: post #44

This is obviously alarming, and if used to disregard the Judiciary's interpretation of law, unconstitutional. But I'm puzzled by the exemption of the Federal Reserve and FOMC. He's previously beefed with them, and would presumably find the additional leverage useful. Why explicitly exclude them?

The way the US political system works is that the legislative passes laws, the executive enforces laws, and the judicial interprets laws and ensures the constitutionality/legality of it all. This is relevant because in this scenario each body plays a critical role, but they 'beat' each other in different ways, almost like a game of rock, paper, scissors. The executive beats the legislative by vetoing laws, the judici…

> The reason for this law is simply to bring the various agencies under executive authority in line.

Just to be very clear, since it actually matters... this is an executive order, not a law. No one voted on it, it was just declared to be true.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#769

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

dwaltrip wrote: post #661
dclowd9901 wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the Supreme Court and Congress has no enforcement power, though, what recourse is there?

Protest and revolt. Government for the people and by the people

A majority of Americans voted for Trump. There was a pollster who was on CNN a day or two ago who looked into people who voted for Clinton and Biden in 2016 and 2020, but then for Trump in 2024. These people were (of course generally speaking) happy with Trump's performace so far this term. There frustration with the Democrats was what they perceived as a lack of action, and they see Trump as "moving fast".

It's clear the American people (again, majority speaking - I mean, I certainly care) don't care about what is going on with the federal government right now. The only thing that will make them care is if the economy tanks or if inflation spirals out of control.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#770

Post by yesiamyourdad »

wilg wrote: post #608
neilv wrote: post #582

Who is actually behind all these executive orders? Do they all originate by the President saying "I want X" in reaction to something, and lawyers figuring out how to do X? Do some of them originate with a wishlist of some extremist think tank or powerful people, and they finally found a President who'll rubberstamp them? Other?

They put out a whole playbook called Project 2025, developed by a bunch of insane people at the Heritage Foundation. Trump lied and said he didn't know anything about it. Now they're doing it.

Not only did they put out a playbook, they actively recruited and screened people to take government positions. I read a post on Reddit from someone who went through the training. The whole idea was to find ideological supporters. Trump's problem in 2016 was that he wasn't prepared and relied a lot on existing government supporters and established GOP figures, who weren't completely loyal. This time, they were prepared. That's the reason why he's been able to move so quickly in the first month.
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