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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#761

Post by throwaway48476 »

karel-3d wrote: post #527
Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

UK government wants a backdoor access to all users, worldwide, irrespective of their nationality .

The UK needs to be reminded of 1776 before they reprise what gave rise to the 4th ammendment.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#762

Post by polski-g »

oneplane wrote: post #555
TechnicalVault wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It creates a nasty precedent doesn't it? If Apple can provide the UK government with foreign data, what's to stop Russia or China making them provide data on UK minister's phones, or more likely dissidents in exile? I can't see on what basis the government thinks they're going to get to be exceptional here?

What stops them is one of two things: Option 1: they operate a separate shard in that country and that shared is only accessible by that country. Companies like Apple, AWS, Cloudflare etc. have been doing it this way in China for a while now. Result: they can spy on the stuff in their country, but the only stuff in their country is their own stuff. Option 2: no longer operate in an official capacity in that country.…

Option 3: Cook talks to Trump and asks for tariffs in the UK until this demand is rescinded.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#763

Post by globular-toast »

wyclif wrote: post #703
Havoc wrote: post #113

UK tech laws seem to consistently be the worst of both worlds. Not rights centric like the EU and not business supportive like the US. Just old people making bad laws about stuff they don't understand - or are straight up citizen hostile, sometimes hard to tell which it is.

I'd like to think that we've reached the point now that there will be mass resistance to threats to privacy and freedom of speech in the UK, but Britons are such a docile, accepting, and pliant people when it comes to standing up to Big Brother.

Why now? I gave up on this at least 10 years ago. If you can't even get techy people to think about the ethical ramifications of encryption etc then it's a lost cause. What makes you think now it's different? They said it couldn't get much worse 10 years ago, as did they 20. Do you really think the UK population has a breaking point where they will suddenly understand privacy and why it's important?

The UK population generally wants to put their fingers in their ears and pretend everything is ok. Remember we're all descended from people who didn't go to the colonies to try to get a better life.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#764

Post by vidarh »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #730
anonym29 wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me crazy, but it seems probably unwise for any nation to be perpetually operating under "we're a bad recession away from ethno-nationalists starting a race war" as a default state of affairs.

well they accepted these people into their country in the first place

Most of the ethno-nationalists are born here.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#765

Post by michaelg7x »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #663
Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

What is up with the UK? I have always loved my British friends and appreciated England’s history (setting aside their brutality during the British Empire). I just don’t understand where they went wrong on curtailing free speech rights of their citizens, privacy rights, etc. I just hope we in the USA don’t follow their lead. Democracies without free speech and privacy are not really democracies.

> I just don’t understand where they went wrong on curtailing free speech rights of their citizens, privacy rights, etc.

Security establishment's innate desire to read and listen to absolutely everything. Blair/Bush's war on terror. Id card proposals. Smart phone use sky rockets. Supposed E2E comms. Hate speech. Something must be done! Right wing policies on pretty much everything cause more protest. Tories criminalise (*some types of) protest. Labour government raises TCN to Apple.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#766

Post by genewitch »

hackeman300 wrote: post #722
anonym29 wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is calling him Tim Apple some sort of inside joke I'm out of the loop on? We don't call Elon "Elon Tesla" or Satya "Satya Microsoft".

The president has called him that on occasion

Once, and in context it was "Tim [at] Apple", because he loves to name drop like that." Any future mentions of Tim Apple by the president are tongue in cheek.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#767

Post by defrost »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #756
mark_l_watson wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is up with the UK? I have always loved my British friends and appreciated England’s history (setting aside their brutality during the British Empire). I just don’t understand where they went wrong on curtailing free speech rights of their citizens, privacy rights, etc. I just hope we in the USA don’t follow their lead. Democracies without free speech and privacy are not really democracies.

They broke Enigma code, and since then their spy agencies have overweight influence?

Poland broke the Enigma code .. and built the first Bombes.

Maybe you're thinking of William Thomas Tutte breaking the Tunny (sawfish) code?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#768

Post by foldr »

gambiting wrote: post #645
foldr wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't support the legislation you're referring to, but I think you're painting an exaggerated picture (unfortunately a common theme of these threads on HN about the UK). You can easily find examples of recent protests in London: https://news.google.com/search?q=protests%20london&hl=en-GB&...

Note how I didn't say that protests don't happen in the UK. They obviously do. But the problem is that now that effectively every protest has been made illegal due to the fluid definition of what "disruptive" means, the enforcement is arbitrary. Just stop oil protesters? Thrown in jail. Protesting in front of the Chinese embassy? Carry on. That's the problem with the broad legislation in the UK - government wants to…

I understand. However, I think your original post was very much open to being misinterpreted by people who don’t live in the UK or follow UK news. It’s obvious to us that protests still happen in the UK. But many people here only read negative news stories about the UK and would just assume from your post that protest in general was now effectively banned.

Weren’t the few JSO protestors who were jailed convicted of doing things that would be objectively illegal in more or less any country? Where are the countries that allow me to deface priceless works of art or block public highways without any legal consequences? I am not saying that these are necessarily illegitimate forms of protest, but they come under the heading of ‘civil disobedience’. The whole point of civil disobedience is that you get punished and thereby draw attention to your cause. Even in the US you can easily be jailed for protests involving blockading or trespassing: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-69003240.amp, https://www.vpm.org/news/2024-06-24/gaza-protest-interstate-...

It may well be that the new legislation is overly broad, but I don’t think the JSO protests are a great example of this.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#769

Post by chrisjj »

nichohel wrote: post #616
booi wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah isn't it in... you know... Ireland?

There is the Republic of Ireland, not in UK, and Northern Ireland, in UK.

And Apple's "haven" is in Republic of Ireland, so no, not UK.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#770

Post by chrisjj »

lakjsljlkj wrote: post #615
Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

Sounds like you're assuming that UK's goal is to stop criminals. I don't think that's their goal. I think that's their cover story. As for Apple, their daily/hourly/whatever fines might be less than cost of a major ad campaign if they were to buy that publicity directly. Sounds like a good deal for them to refuse to honor the request.

So what is the goal?
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