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The Origins of Wokeness

paulgraham.com

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Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#761

Post by timewizard »

yapyap wrote: post #99

I think the word “woke” means very different things to some people. As an example I think people from the American political left to somewhere(?) in the middle see it as what it has been introduced as, that being looking past the status quo and instead looking at your own values, i.e. the morality of homelessness and not having a disdain for them but empathy for them instead. and then on the other side it feels like…

You're describing the difference between being inwardly moral and being outwardly a bully.

When people use "woke" in a derogatory fashion they just mean "bully."

Which is why James Lindsay's "woke right" comes across as so incomprehensible. He just means "right wing bullies."

Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#762

Post by onetimeusename »

yapyap wrote: post #99

I think the word “woke” means very different things to some people. As an example I think people from the American political left to somewhere(?) in the middle see it as what it has been introduced as, that being looking past the status quo and instead looking at your own values, i.e. the morality of homelessness and not having a disdain for them but empathy for them instead. and then on the other side it feels like…

I don't think I agree. I think the counterpoint of "woke" is "fascist" or "racist". People on the right call things woke and people on the left call things fascist. But I think the difference in the meaning of these words reveals a lot about who is saying them. For example, woke people are merely self-righteously moralistic but fascists are such a severe threat that we have to end things like free speech, etc. in order to prevent a constant threat to society. That might explain some of this divide.

Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#766

Post by docmars »

pera wrote: post #397

Few things are as performative as venture capitalists aligning their politics with the upcoming government.

I read it more as finally being safe to share his views without gross retaliation leading to a complete excommunication from every professional venture he's involved in. The powers have tilted in such a way that people no longer have to hide their true feelings. Refreshing, really.

Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#768

Post by docmars »

hhh1111 wrote: post #628

wokeness is more or less southern Baptist fire and brimstone Christianity for posh urban white people. For western minorities it functions as a kind of nationalism

I think you describe it really well. There is certainly a large pocket of black communities on social media sharing dreams of a Western takeover, ranging anywhere from outright (fraudulently) claiming inventions they never invented, brazenly replacing characters in every form of entertainment, all the way to openly proposing a white purge, let's call it. Very concerning.

What's even weirder is that this content was rarely ever flagged in the Twitter days, and still prevails on X today. Demonizing anyone of white European descent on Reddit is also completely acceptable, and doesn't result in moderation.

Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#769

Post by [deleted] »

moshegramovsky wrote: post #691
throw101010qwe wrote: post #377

This is a politically charged discussion but I think it demonstrates some of the problem. Left arguments, just like the right, devolve into a theme of you are with us or a racist. There is no middle ground. I am no longer in the Bay Area but I still remember one of the depressing defining moments of this during the BLM protests. Shop owners would throw up signs that literally would say “We are minority owned, please…

Let me share the perspective I have as a member of a class of people that have been subject to racism for thousands of years, including enslavement, arbitrary murder, and systematic mass murder. Please forgive me, but being quiet didn't seem to work so far. At least hundreds of thousands of polite, quiet, reasonable, assimilated urban Jews were murdered in the holocaust. It is deeply wrong that African Americans and…

[deleted]

Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#770

Post by docmars »

skepticATX wrote: post #127

It’s interesting to me that a certain type of person is so susceptible to buying into this fable of wokeness, especially when it pertains to universities. Almost like there is a woke mind virus, but it’s not infecting the people they think it is. I attended university in the mid 2010s, so close to peak “wokeness”, and I never witnessed or heard of anything like what pg is describing. In my experience it was totally f…

On YouTube, watch the Evergreen State College 3-part documentary by Bret Weinstein. This is much more common than you think, through your anecdote, unfortunately. Granted, this happened in 2017, so a few years after your time in college, but I would argue "peak wokeness" sits between 2016 to today, in large part due to Trump's first election win.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH2WeWgcSMk

2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0W9QbkX8Cs

3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vyBLCqyUes

This should make anyone's skin crawl with the way this college's faculty and staff were treated, and the childish behavior of the students to allow this to happen. This gives a reason why "college kids" are no longer considered adults.

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