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The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

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Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#761

Post by __rito__ »

sublinear wrote: post #755
vishnugupta wrote: post #101

One big change I've noticed between growing up in a small town and now where I'm in my mid 40s in a big metro city in India is increased "transactional" nature of interactions of my daily life. Back then we had a deeper ties with all those who served us by which I mean vegetable vendor, carpenter, doctor, knife sharpener, cloth shop, grocer, baker and so on. Whenever we interacted with them it would be a small chit-c…

I don't mean to be so brutal about it, but these small social interactions were simply never valued that much by the majority and maybe even seen as a nuisance.

It's not all or nothing.

I live in small town India since Covid and WFH, and I spent my childhood here.

The thing is, with this much tightknit society, people are often loudly judgemental and requires you to conform.

But, there are always sensible, gentle people, and loud stupid people. You can modulate your expectations.

But what happened is- all the "good ones" leave sooner or later. There is much hue and cry about brain drain from India to US/Europe, but little about brain drain from small towns and villages to big cities.

I left for college, too.

There were many more cultural programmes, much better environment for upliftment and somewhat more sensible society when I was a child compared to now.

I engage in community as much as I can, but very selectively. Because most people want things to fall in a certain place. People are ill informed in technology, and don't really get WFH. Some bluntly ask- why I don't have a "real job"? People want girls to get married at a certain age, and squint if that limit is crossed.

Community also come with this kind of burdens.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#762

Post by __rito__ »

Chris2048 wrote: post #200
vishnugupta wrote: post #101

One big change I've noticed between growing up in a small town and now where I'm in my mid 40s in a big metro city in India is increased "transactional" nature of interactions of my daily life. Back then we had a deeper ties with all those who served us by which I mean vegetable vendor, carpenter, doctor, knife sharpener, cloth shop, grocer, baker and so on. Whenever we interacted with them it would be a small chit-c…

> I'm now connected only with my immediate family, that's it Are there no other ways to make friends via social activities?

Not GP.

But most Indian corporate companies are sweatshops requiring you to work 10-12 hours a day. And most people live about 30 minutes to 2 hours away from their office. So, count in commute, too.

There’s simply no time for family, let alone community.

There are weekends, but sometimes you work, sometimes you go to small trips by car.

There are only religious festivals in gated communities and weddings etc. where you meet your neighbors and form some sort of connections.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#763

Post by __rito__ »

g9yuayon wrote: post #428

When I grew up in China, students in a school were divided into fixed classes. Those classes formed great communities, as we spent hours every day for at least three years and some for 6 years. Each class had a head teacher, who fostered the sense of community too. No one would mock people for geeking out. No one would mock people for not being good at sports. No one would mock those who struggled at academics. At le…

Hey, I am from India, and it's exactly the same here.

Looking down on people for focusing on studies and scoring good on tests is such an American thing!

In India, geeks and nerds are celebrated.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#764

Post by __rito__ »

thih9 wrote: post #70

HN readers of any age who felt alone at some point and found community - what worked for you?

Just being able to choose people you spend time with is a huge plus. When you are in school, you are forced to be with some people, and see them everyday despite not liking them even a bit. Growing up fixed this. Now I can choose.

What worked is volunteering in charitable activities, organizing programmes and camps, deliberately choosing some people and making time to see them regularly. That's about all.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#765

Post by meetingthrower »

telesilla wrote: post #748
vishnugupta wrote: post #101

One big change I've noticed between growing up in a small town and now where I'm in my mid 40s in a big metro city in India is increased "transactional" nature of interactions of my daily life. Back then we had a deeper ties with all those who served us by which I mean vegetable vendor, carpenter, doctor, knife sharpener, cloth shop, grocer, baker and so on. Whenever we interacted with them it would be a small chit-c…

I live in a major city outside the US and the culture here is very non-transactional with the neighbourhood vendors. Sometimes I forget to have enough cash and I they'll suggest I pay later (and always do). I'll be given excellent and free advice from my pharmacy, free fruit samples from the fruit grocer, good discounts on places I frequent. These are owner-run businesses, obviously the supermarket doesn't give me an…

Ok what city??

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#766

Post by mnky9800n »

Bjartr wrote: post #736
ThunderSizzle wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain how 2x-3x housing costs in 4 years is due to tax policy.

Presumably the implication is that it's because lots of homes are being bought by real estate companies as long term investments that they may or may not even rent back out. This extra demand beyond people buying housing to, you know, live in it, drives up the price. A different tax policy could disincentize this behavior, leading to lower demand and thus lower prices. That's my current understanding of that perspect…

A 100% tax on property for those owning more than 50 properties would cause a large movement in the market. But people will say what about the value being tanked when all those houses go on the market? I say, good. The value of homes should go down. People need a place to live. Houses should not be considered an asset. You don't treat your home like an asset. You don't buy it when the market is right or sell it when it's right. You don't improve it in ways that are most likely to increase value. You live in your house. It's your place to be. Whether it's a flat, a house, or a boat in a canal, it's where you live and feel safe and spend a large chunk of time.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#767

Post by leobg »

telesilla wrote: post #748
vishnugupta wrote: post #101

One big change I've noticed between growing up in a small town and now where I'm in my mid 40s in a big metro city in India is increased "transactional" nature of interactions of my daily life. Back then we had a deeper ties with all those who served us by which I mean vegetable vendor, carpenter, doctor, knife sharpener, cloth shop, grocer, baker and so on. Whenever we interacted with them it would be a small chit-c…

I live in a major city outside the US and the culture here is very non-transactional with the neighbourhood vendors. Sometimes I forget to have enough cash and I they'll suggest I pay later (and always do). I'll be given excellent and free advice from my pharmacy, free fruit samples from the fruit grocer, good discounts on places I frequent. These are owner-run businesses, obviously the supermarket doesn't give me an…

+1. What city?

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#768

Post by djom »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #703
diputsmonro wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect that viewpoint and would be happy to adopt it in different times. But it's not as simple as political tribalism. For example - Several of my close friends are trans. For the last decade or so, Republicans have been viciously attacking trans people and several states are actively taking away their rights. The entire right wing media ecosystem uses every chance they can to demonize trans people in the new cul…

I mean, the label of the group is “conservative”. Trans acceptance and the explosion in trans identifying individuals is objectively a change in the social order, which by definition will be opposed by those seeking to conserve the existing social order. Conservatives don’t have a logical argument, and when you press them for one they typically generate something nonsensical on the fly, but really they don’t need a l…

Conservatives might not have a logical argument against this, but feminists have plenty. And if you read radical feminist writings they've been warning about this and the outcomes of this for decades. Take prisons for example. The policy changes that in some states now separate prisons by "gender identity" instead of sex has led directly to males being locked up in women's prisons, some of whom have sexually assaulted, raped and impregnated female prisoners incarcerated with them. This is just one negative outcome of many. The ideology behind "trans" causes demonstrable harm towards women and girls.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#769

Post by southernplaces7 »

goda90 wrote: post #628
southernplaces7 wrote: post #627

Or, conversely, there's a reporting and over-reporting bias at work today that previously didn't exist due to much smaller exposure to notions of perceived and real mental health disorders among (admittedly often suggestible) young people. "Community" is not only a generic term, it's also a somewhat ambiguously dangerous one that captures many very biased notions of a supposedly ideal community that have little to do…

> Many people complain about a lack of community specifically because their own preferred idea of how it should be isn't what's popular. If someone has little positive face to face interaction with people outside their immediate family, I don't see how you could argue that's not a lack of community.

People can leave their home, people can travel. If digital media expose to the curious a given community of shared interests, you have more avenues than ever for discovering it, and making contact. I simply can't see how this is worse than not even being able to find such communities while stuck in your supposedly superior town/neighborhood community of the people who live around you.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#770

Post by Aeolun »

cpburns2009 wrote: post #704
Aeolun wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Often a deal-breaker for the more privacy-conscious people, unfortunately You can’t have conversation in your community without them being public either. Saying anything in discord is just as public as on the middle of a busy shopping street.

Typically in public you don't have an irrevocable transcript of every word spoken. The predominace of electric communication and its natural surveillance has eliminated the ephemeral nature of conversation.

To some extend. But some must be pretty dedicated to find something you said even several days ago in a public discord. Coupled with the low stakes communication generally going on there it seems unlikely to me anyone would ever bother.
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