Live data from Hacker News

Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

axios.com

761–770 of 1001 posts

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#761

Congress can actually legislate the right of agencies to interpret the gaps in the laws back into effect - by passing a law that explicitly gives agencies this power. Just like congress can legislate abortion laws rather than leaving it to judicial precedence. Fundamentally there’s nothing wrong with the position of supreme court to push the responsibility of lawmaking back on congress.

I liked this section of Justice Gorsuch's concurrence: > How bad is the problem? Take just one example. Brand X concerned a law regulating broadband internet services. There, the Court upheld an agency rule adopted by the administration of President George W. Bush because it was premised on a “reasonable” interpretation of the statute. Later, President Barack Obama’s administration rescinded the rule and replaced it…

If his complaint is the back-and-forth, this is certainly a look-in-the-mirror moment for Gorsuch and the present court, who've sure made their own notable contributions to whipsaw governance dynamics lately.

If his complaint is that there's an executive discretion in executing the law or the expectation should be that congressional force only goes as far as its ability to write micromanagement into statute then it's hard to restrain from making "do you even constitution bro" or "who are you and why are you wearing that robe" remarks.

(Of course, in representative government, not only elections but agency and judicial appointments have consequences, so while it it may be inconsistent for justices to exercise that privilege for themselves while arguing away the right of another branch to do the same, it is not that big of a surprise, and it is entirely consistent with a philosophy based in elitist privilege for some that is likely behind much of today's ruling among others.)

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#762
post #744

This is a complete disaster. The ramifications will be felt for decades. Now businesses must factor in the uncertainty of any random person launching a lawsuit that causes a local court to reverse a federal agency policy. Huge potential impacts to product / revenue, not just legal fees to fight everything. And immeasurable impacts of cowing all bold business decisions to avoid the ire of any person or group, no matte…

> Now businesses must factor in the uncertainty of any random person launching a lawsuit that causes a local court to reverse a federal agency policy. Huge potential impacts to product / revenue, not just legal fees to fight everything Businesses already have to deal with frequent litigation, including class-action lawsuits even in areas that overlap with regulatory agencies. Quite to the contrary of what you are sug…

oh yeah because our courts have definitely shown themselves to be non partisan, like how one of the republican supreme court justices thinks they are at war ideologically against the other side and must win

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#763

Before proclaiming that this outcome is horrible - Please consider that the Good Guys (your opinion) might not win the election in November. And that you might not want the courts auto-deferring to all the plausible-ish interpretations of ambiguous laws which gov't agency officials appointed by the Bad Guys (your opinion) might suddenly add the Official Agency Interpretations next year.

> Please consider that the Good Guys (your opinion) might not win the election in November.

How could they possibly win? They aren't even on the ballot!

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#764

Can anyone speak to what this will mean for the ATF’s “rulemaking”?

It means a judge can, if they so choose, decide if an ATF rule is lawful or not instead of the ATF itself always having the final say. Speaking of the ATF, it took a Supreme Court ruling to get ammonium perchlorate off the explosives list so model rocketry could continue as a hobby. With this ruling, a case like that wouldn’t have to go all the way to the Supreme Court. This is a good thing.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#765
post #99

I'm impressed that they can so easily dispose of 40 years of law making by Congress that assumed that agencies would interpret the statutes and make rules for regulating their area of authority. Now Congress is going to have to specify every possible consequence of laws in the statutes, otherwise a judge will decide. So agencies will not have any power to actually regulate. Awesome logic work, but terrible legal thin…

I'm thankful. Congress skirted their duties for 40 years. This legislative / executive codependency then created a tightly connected and interdependent governance system, outside the purview of the judicial 'checks and balances .' This is why things like warrantless mass tapping and the Patriot Act became 'good law.' We are unwinding decades of bad governance. This is a joyous occasion, along with the ACJ decision fr…

ahh yes our good ole non partisan judicial system will surely save us

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#766

It Congress wants to change the law, they can. It's up to congress, not the administration, to make law. For decades it seems Congress has largely abdicated its legislative responsibility in exchange for the political ease of letting the administrative state, and the courts, make the law. Just because something has "precedence" doesn't mean it's right. Banning gay marriage had precedence, but that didn't make it righ…

Arguably Chevron made it easier for Congress to abdicate its responsibility.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#767
post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's exactly how it works. The US Supreme Court can rule a law unconstitutional, and that's that.

So basically it's the same as here, the supreme court (which is appointed, not elected) has power over elected officials? (Because they can decide what is constitutional or not) Edit: I have more questions but for some reason I can't reply to your replies :(

>I have more questions but [...]

There's throttling to prevent rapid back-and-forth commenting as that can devolve somewhat; might be that. Try clicking the "X minutes ago".

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#768

The basic trend in America has been to defer power to an administrative state beholden to the Executive. This accumulation of power has the basic effect of enabling tyranny. To prevent tyranny it is necessary to check this concerning accumulation of Executive power.

Does this decision do that, or does it just move the accumulation of power to a different branch? From bureaucrats who can be fired to unelected judges with lifetime tenure. How would you argue that this is an improvement? The response may be that Congress makes far more specific legislation, along with all the weird pitfalls that will come from that, and outsources the actual text to corporate lobbyists. That seems…

> Does this decision do that, or does it just move the accumulation of power to a different branch?

Yes, it does do that; no it does not move the accumulation of power to a different branch. It restores the distribution of power among the distinct branches of government, and stops executive-branch agencies from operating as legislature, executive, and judiciary all rolled into one.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#769
post #99

I'm impressed that they can so easily dispose of 40 years of law making by Congress that assumed that agencies would interpret the statutes and make rules for regulating their area of authority. Now Congress is going to have to specify every possible consequence of laws in the statutes, otherwise a judge will decide. So agencies will not have any power to actually regulate. Awesome logic work, but terrible legal thin…

You misunderstand the situation. Agencies will still get to make regulations, but where there's any legitimate question/controversy over their interpretation of the law the courts will make the final decision -- final, at least, until Congress modifies the law to get whatever effect they had wanted (which might not be the one the agency wanted). Also, by and large the vast majority of regulations will stand.

[deleted]

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#770
post #99

I'm impressed that they can so easily dispose of 40 years of law making by Congress that assumed that agencies would interpret the statutes and make rules for regulating their area of authority. Now Congress is going to have to specify every possible consequence of laws in the statutes, otherwise a judge will decide. So agencies will not have any power to actually regulate. Awesome logic work, but terrible legal thin…

Combined with yesterday’s ruling on administrative courts, this amounts to a massive increase in the role of the federal judiciary in the execution of government action. By 2040 the normal procedure every April will be, rather than filing a tax return, filing a suit in federal court disputing the right of the IRS to determine whether your income is actually ‘income’. Eighty federalist society AI lawbots will automati…

at least well be able to legally bribe our way to the front of the line as long as we dont admit its a bribe
Post reply on HN