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In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

nytimes.com

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Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#761

Post by shiroiushi »

em-bee wrote: post #759
shiroiushi wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>as humans we need to concern ourselves with those crimes that actually cause problems in our society, and leave the punishment of breaking god's laws to god. Religious leaders mostly disagree with you, and in religious societies, their beliefs are reflected in public policy.

well that is something we need to fix then, isn't it? for starters, better education will also affect future religious leaders and make them better leaders. but the religions themselves also need critical examination. examples for a better model for religions exist. we need to look at them and adopt some of their ideas. this discussion shows how the process works. we identify a problem, look for potential solutions,…

Sorry, no. What you write makes absolutely no sense to a religious person. A religion (any religion) is, by definition, correct, and doesn't have any problems. It's not a thing based on any kind of rational thought, but rather pure fantastical belief. You can't "fix" that, when its believers don't think there's anything to fix.

Of course, you're looking at this as an outsider who doesn't believe the religion, so you don't see it this way, and you have entirely different goals in mind. You're probably thinking about people living together in a pluralistic world or something like that, but that's not a concern to a True Believer in a religion, where anyone who disagrees with the religion either needs to stay out of the way or be killed if necessary.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#762

Post by em-bee »

shiroiushi wrote: post #761
em-bee wrote: post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well that is something we need to fix then, isn't it? for starters, better education will also affect future religious leaders and make them better leaders. but the religions themselves also need critical examination. examples for a better model for religions exist. we need to look at them and adopt some of their ideas. this discussion shows how the process works. we identify a problem, look for potential solutions,…

Sorry, no. What you write makes absolutely no sense to a religious person. A religion (any religion) is, by definition, correct, and doesn't have any problems. It's not a thing based on any kind of rational thought, but rather pure fantastical belief. You can't "fix" that, when its believers don't think there's anything to fix. Of course, you're looking at this as an outsider who doesn't believe the religion, so you…

so the spanish inquisition, or the burning of witches, and whatever else atrocious people did in the name of religion was ok, and reformation was unnecessary? have you not noticed how christianity has changed over time? same for other religions too. is everything religious leaders and people do in the name of religion today backed by their holy scripture? i think not. and until it is, there is room for improvement.

i am a religious person, btw. and i absolutely believe that religion needs to change and advance just like everything else on this planet. the purpose of religion is to address the problems a society faces in its time. as our society advances, so must religion, to be ready to address the problems of a modern changing society. if it can't do that it needs to be replaced by another. this is exactly what jesus did, and the reason why he came to earth. and it is the reason why he promised to return. it is the purpose of all of god's messengers to advance and reform our religious beliefs.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#763

Post by shiroiushi »

em-bee wrote: post #762
shiroiushi wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, no. What you write makes absolutely no sense to a religious person. A religion (any religion) is, by definition, correct, and doesn't have any problems. It's not a thing based on any kind of rational thought, but rather pure fantastical belief. You can't "fix" that, when its believers don't think there's anything to fix. Of course, you're looking at this as an outsider who doesn't believe the religion, so you…

so the spanish inquisition, or the burning of witches, and whatever else atrocious people did in the name of religion was ok, and reformation was unnecessary? have you not noticed how christianity has changed over time? same for other religions too. is everything religious leaders and people do in the name of religion today backed by their holy scripture? i think not. and until it is, there is room for improvement. i…

>so the spanish inquisition, or the burning of witches, and whatever else atrocious people did in the name of religion was ok

Absolutely, yes, if you ask the religious people who did those things. Of course, non-religious people (or people of a different religion) disagree, but that's simply a difference of opinion.

>have you not noticed how christianity has changed over time?

It's changed in many ways, and depends on which group of Christians you're looking at. Are you looking at the Mormons, the "supply side Christians" that are popular in American mega-churches, the rather liberal Presbyterians, or what?

>is everything religious leaders and people do in the name of religion today backed by their holy scripture?

I'm pretty sure it is. You can interpret that scripture an infinite number of ways, so they always seem to find some way of supporting their claims.

>there is room for improvement.

"improvement" is your opinion only. For them, your idea of "needed changes" are anathema.

>this is exactly what jesus did,

Jesus specifically said (if you believe the quotes in the bible are true) that he did NOT come to replace anything. Of course, the teachings attributed to him are quite different from the religion he claimed not to be replacing. And of course, there's no real evidence to support any of this, either his existence, the words claimed to have been said by him, the previous religion the people in that region followed, etc.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#764

Post by detourdog »

CalRobert wrote: post #760
detourdog wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have little idea what you are referring to. During snow removal the streets need to be clear.

I'm saying you have no more right to store your car on the street than I have to store a hot tub on the street.

Thanks I understand and agree. I suppose I read the other as well but it wasn't as clear.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#765

Post by wonder_er »

SoftTalker wrote: post #221
wonder_er wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that sounds right. Tire rubber microplastic generation would go way up, though, because of the vehicle weight. I propose small motor scooters (as is common in asia) as the solution. Cars also take up a godawful amount of space, all the time. Especially in a city. That's the real harm, the tailpipe emissions are trivial compared to the space consumption.

Small motor scooters are not a good solution in the rain and snow

they're adequate (but less fun) in the rain. I have a good thick waterproof poncho in the scooter.

Snow, obviously, is not great. Cold is fine, though.

I live in Denver, ride the scooter year-round, though obviously don't go out in certain conditions.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#766

Post by eikenberry »

jayd16 wrote: post #460
eikenberry wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until they decide to make it their decision and do something like tax companies per onsite worker and/or increased property taxes for office space that could have been better used. Lots of options.

So you drive the office workers out of the city and then what do you do with the other commercial business? They still commute or you raise taxes enough for the city center to die out and hope for suburbanization?

You tear down those old, unsafe office buildings (we have lots of them in our city) and put up modern mixed use buildings. More people == more workers == more customers == more businesses. Add in some cultural features and you have a vibrant downtown that doesn't rely on commuters and doesn't become a ghost-town after 5:00.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#767

Post by gotoeleven »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #365
gotoeleven wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

That’s completely inapplicable to what they said.

"Wow, these are really bad takes" is just name calling with no argument. I guess the comment is not technically ad hominem, just a more generic kind of irrelevant assertion.

Edit: here it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_the_stone

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#768

Post by em-bee »

shiroiushi wrote: post #763
em-bee wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so the spanish inquisition, or the burning of witches, and whatever else atrocious people did in the name of religion was ok, and reformation was unnecessary? have you not noticed how christianity has changed over time? same for other religions too. is everything religious leaders and people do in the name of religion today backed by their holy scripture? i think not. and until it is, there is room for improvement. i…

>so the spanish inquisition, or the burning of witches, and whatever else atrocious people did in the name of religion was ok Absolutely, yes, if you ask the religious people who did those things. Of course, non-religious people (or people of a different religion) disagree, but that's simply a difference of opinion. >have you not noticed how christianity has changed over time? It's changed in many ways, and depends o…

It's changed in many ways, and depends on which group of Christians you're looking at well, i am primarily looking at the catholic church itself, and protestants that came out of it. both changed a lot over the centuries.

Jesus specifically said that he did NOT come to replace anything

but he did come to reform. with the sword.

there's no real evidence to [...] his existence

historians beg to differ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

and as for the words, well, the bible is authentically almost 2000 years old. so someone must have said the words that the people in the bible report. of course, given how the bible was written it is hard to find real evidence for that. so i am not faulting you for not believing it to be real.

to me that doesn't really matter. whether religions are of divine origin or a fantasy, they clearly have a strong influence on the world, and therefore we must subject them to criticism and to reform if they want to keep their relevance in the world.

alternatively, it's time to look for their replacement. it is possible that jesus already came back and the majority of the world missed it.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#769

Post by shiroiushi »

em-bee wrote: post #768
shiroiushi wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so the spanish inquisition, or the burning of witches, and whatever else atrocious people did in the name of religion was ok Absolutely, yes, if you ask the religious people who did those things. Of course, non-religious people (or people of a different religion) disagree, but that's simply a difference of opinion. >have you not noticed how christianity has changed over time? It's changed in many ways, and depends o…

It's changed in many ways, and depends on which group of Christians you're looking at well, i am primarily looking at the catholic church itself, and protestants that came out of it. both changed a lot over the centuries. Jesus specifically said that he did NOT come to replace anything but he did come to reform. with the sword. there's no real evidence to [...] his existence historians beg to differ. https://en.wikip…

>to me that doesn't really matter. whether religions are of divine origin or a fantasy, they clearly have a strong influence on the world, and therefore we must subject them to criticism and to reform if they want to keep their relevance in the world.

Why do they need to stay relevant? If you're willing to accept they're fantasy, then it'd be better for everyone to read Lord of the Rings instead. At least it actually promotes wholesome values and thinking, unlike the Bible which promotes rape, slavery, and genocide. The god of LotR is consistent, whereas the god of the Bible seems to be narcissistic, sociopathic, and worse, schizophrenic (somehow going from directing his followers to commit genocide, to later reproducing somehow and then promoting peace and tolerace, but only sometimes).

And at least with fantasy epics, everyone knows they're not real, so no one is setting up theocracies based on their interpretations of them and committing atrocities to support these.

Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them

#770

Post by kortilla »

em-bee wrote: post #756
kortilla wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you’re describing absolutely does not exist if you have any of the current religions. Look at the abortion debate. One side is about the rights of the woman and the other side is about the rights of the fetus. When people see the fetus as a baby, it suddenly becomes murder. There isn’t much nuance there for a compromise.

What you’re describing absolutely does not exist if you have any of the current religions. what are current religions for you? i do not want to promote a particular religion on this site, but there are options out there that you may not yet have considered. i also believe that while peoples behavior reflects their religion, the religions do not control or limit anyones ability to examine things critically. if you are…

You completely lost the thread. My reply is that your notion of “education will make everyone agree on things” is childish and completely ridiculous in light of even basic religious and political debates. Very smart people on both sides are definitely empathetic yet want to vote to stop the other side.

It’s not shifting any goalposts at all. All it takes is one example to show how the idea fails and that’s what I provided.

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