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Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

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Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#761
post #670
post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

debating about how they run the store is totally valid, but there being only one store absolutely does make iOS safer overall

But does it? I haven't seen any hard evidence, and lots of anecdotal tales of technology illiterate grandparents, fathers and mothers being better off.

> lots of anecdotal tales of technology illiterate grandparents, fathers and mothers being better off

I'll bite. Is there anyone here that thinks overall security for elderly (and lower skilled users) will *not* be hurt by additional app stores? I find it hard to believe. And, I write this post an an uber geek is is neither an Apple fan boi, but is very impressive by their overall security and UX. For the geeks, it would be great to have more stores. For the average users... maybe... For the least tech-savvy users, I cannot believe it will benefit them.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#762

Oh the horror, it must be so hard for Apple to cave to an open system for these people. What will they ever do without their unbelievable tax on app profits simply for existing on their nearly unlimited real estate, that is, the web?! I have no sympathy for their concerns. I can download apps on my MacBook machines all day from many different sources, and it harms no one. While I understand the associated risks, comp…

I’m very curious how you have this position yet have a MacBook. Why not support a better company like framework?

"You hate capitalism so much, _and yet you live under capitalism!_ How very hypocritical of you..."

Don't get me wrong, Framework makes a lot of neat stuff, but you can't swap out a Macbook to _anything_ without consequences. It does not take a lot of imagination and empathy to see that for some people, those consequences aren't acceptable at all, or not simply not worth the utterly undetectable sting that a company such as Apple would feel by us not buying a single Macbook from them.

If someone has to alter their entire work environment and process, while Apple doesn't even notice, is that truly worth the moral superiority they'll feel? For a whole lot of people, that answer is "no", and I can't blame them.

And yet we live under capitalism...

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#763
post #721
post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of Android users use the Play Store (or the Amazon thing) exclusively. So Android is not different than iOS in this regard. The vanishingly few remaining users use F-Droid (sometimes exclusively), which is probably the safest app store on Earth, with GNU/Linux and *BSD distros' base repositories. Open source only, reproducible builds with public recipes written independently, trackers removed (becau…

> The vast majority of Android users use the Play Store (or the Amazon thing) exclusively Are you sure? Android phones are pretty big in China, which is by far the world's largest smartphone market, and I guess Play Store & "the Amazon thing" (I don't remember the name either) adoption there is close to 0%. Anecdotally I have noticed a lot of people using phone vendor app stores in India (the second largest market, t…

    > I guess Play Store & "the Amazon thing" (I don't remember the name either) adoption there is close to 0%.
Woah. Is this true? If they don't use Google Play Store, what do they use?

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#764
Some specific benefits competitive apps stores could provide (within the general benefits of competition and innovation):

1. The open source app store. The git hub app store. Open source apps easily prepped by developers and installed and updated by regular users. With source and build files.

2. The developer tools app store. Real developer tools on iOS devices.

3. Lower app store vigs. Lower app prices. Allow the lowest cost part of the market to drop prices further. I would love to buy tiny solid 0.25 cent apps without ads. Maker markets without a parasitical Apple tax.

4. The ad free app store. Sorry I even imagined it, it just hurts to think about it.

5. And the no "in-app purchase" store. Only for substantial apps worth paying for up front. Use forever, or choose to pay again for an upgrade you actually want.

6. Children's only app store, with high safety bars of all kinds. Very parent friendly.

7. Formally verified app store. Starts small, but learns. Meantime, more safety than Apple can deliver by one astronomical unit. Pushing Apple to improve its safety MORE.

8. Different kinds of app infrastructure. Streaming apps and games from anyone. Better systems for software versioning, updating, cross-app plug-in mechanisms.

9. One shop app-stores that deliver different kinds of versioning, upgrading, and other kinds of support that Apple doesn't in a coherent manner.

10. The very safe no-code app store. Sorry, app stores with different approaches! Very sandboxed, but very easy for technically literate non-coders to create simple tools for anyone to use. Given the solid sandboxing, and restricted "source", no barriers for anyone to contribute their app. Maker friendly.

11. The novelty developers 1k-byte app store. It's just for fun but how cool would that be. Innovation in efficiency as a game. Other developer app store experiments. Innovation comes from freedom. (Had to turn this list up to 11.)

--

None of these inconvenience those who wish to stay on Apple's store.

They will only push Apple to increase its selling-point safety futher, while, while dropping anti-innovative self-interested restrictions it has misleadingly defended, like its prohibition on other web engines ("But the safety!").

Any other ideas for app stores that deliver useful differences?

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m very curious how you have this position yet have a MacBook. Why not support a better company like framework?

Because MacBooks are just better. (Have owned both.) I have owned, and continue to own, all sorts of laptops and phones. I could rant about Apple all day long online, but in the end their product is simply superior.

Within the corporate monopolist called Apple, that is to say within the minds of all its collective employees, lies an old idea still warm and vibrant after decades of waning indifference. This idea is called Apple Computer, and it makes the best gosh-darn computers in the world: the Mac.

It is such a powerful and self-evident idea that those computers are still above and beyond the best ones in the world, even with all those years of indifference.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple fans would always claim that this was a security measure to prevent malware. I have always found the claim dubious. If you believe in that as a security measure, you could still have a signing requirement and apple could revoke trust on known-bad binaries. Which is probably what they will do.

Mind giving some high level clarification on how Apple would revoke entitlements on applications they’re not allowed to manage? Honestly curious about the infrastructure involved, is it really simple from a technological stand point? If the developer needs to use Apple resources to track and manage said entitlements, and the consumer expects Apple to police bad actors, then are we asking Apple to do this for free on…

I thought they already do this with notarized binaries on macOS. Conceptually it's no different from certificate revocation. The platform can phone home periodically to discover binaries for which notarization has been revoked.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because MacBooks are just better. (Have owned both.) I have owned, and continue to own, all sorts of laptops and phones. I could rant about Apple all day long online, but in the end their product is simply superior.

Within the corporate monopolist called Apple, that is to say within the minds of all its collective employees, lies an old idea still warm and vibrant after decades of waning indifference. This idea is called Apple Computer, and it makes the best gosh-darn computers in the world: the Mac. It is such a powerful and self-evident idea that those computers are still above and beyond the best ones in the world, even with…

It's obviously an opinion.

I have plenty of computers running Windows and a variety of Linux distros at my home. Laptops, desktop, servers, and weird hybrids of the former.

Same with mobile - I have tried Android, iOS, PureOS, GrapheneOS.

Apple's UX is so far ahead for me. It's just better. But, you obviously disagree. No need to be disparaging.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#768

Apple isn’t considering that they are the baddies? I suggest strong regulation of the complete BigIT and two chairs for public observers at minimum. In addition they are not allowed to enter any new market. Why? Because it worked well with AT&T . Results: * UNIX * C * Open-Source * Public Documentation Sounds good? Until the Reagan administration appeared, allowed them to split up (Baby Bells), the UNIX-Wars followed…

I like this story. Nay, I love this story. But it is a just-so story. None of the regulators had a clue it would go this way, it is a lot of magical historical accidents, and there is no reason to think interference guarantees positive outcomes. For example, HN seems to bristle at the subject of AI regulation as a game incumbents play that hews towards regulatory capture. Apple is clearly in the wrong here but how to…

I think it's a little bit better than that. There was a theory in operation: regulation which prevents sprawling monopolies will produce good results for society.

Of course, if you shook the historical dice differently, there would be different results. From that point of view it's all contingent, and you can't re-run the historical experiment, and so whatever conclusions you draw must be a Just So story.

But, that theory was in operation. There were regulations which prevented sprawling monopolies, and large (but not sprawling monopolistic) companies did produce a lot of good things for society. No one knew what they would be ahead of time - that's all contingent, after all - but regulators regulated with the expectation that their regulations would produce good effects.

Now we've de-regulated, and the people doing the de-regulation theorize that (predictably) sprawling monopolistic companies will produce more good for society than large (but not sprawling monopolistic) regulated companies did.

So... Did / do they? It's fair enough to argue either way. It's fair enough to argue about which regulations are effective and which are not. It's not fair enough to throw up our hands and say "we can't actually know what's going to happen, so there's no point discussing it."

Because there are theories of economics and governance in play, and they matter, and they need to be appraised.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#769

Some specific benefits competitive apps stores could provide (within the general benefits of competition and innovation ): 1. The open source app store. The git hub app store. Open source apps easily prepped by developers and installed and updated by regular users. With source and build files. 2. The developer tools app store. Real developer tools on iOS devices. 3. Lower app store vigs. Lower app prices. Allow the l…

When the App store was new, the "free" apps were actually free. Now practically all of the "free" apps featured on the app store are not free at all. Half the time you can't even do anything without paying, but you only find this out after going through the hassle of downloading the app.

A better app store would make pricing actually clear before you download the app, instead of the nightmare that pretend "free" apps have created.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#770

Some specific benefits competitive apps stores could provide (within the general benefits of competition and innovation ): 1. The open source app store. The git hub app store. Open source apps easily prepped by developers and installed and updated by regular users. With source and build files. 2. The developer tools app store. Real developer tools on iOS devices. 3. Lower app store vigs. Lower app prices. Allow the l…

You don't have to fantasize, Android phones have had this possibility since the first version of the OS.
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