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Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

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Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#761

Post by murakamiiq84 »

jacquesm wrote: post #612
kmlevitt wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might also explain why they don’t back down and reinstate him. If they double down with this and it goes to court, they can argue that they were legitimately acting in what they thought was openAI’s best interests. Even if their reasoning looks stupid, they would still have plausible deniability in terms of a difference of opinion/philosophical approach on how to handle AI, etc. But if they reinstate him it’s ba…

Exactly. This is all consistent and why I think they are in contact with their legal advisors (and if they aren't by now they are beyond stupid).

Unfortunately lawyers almost always tell you to be quiet, even when you should be talking. So in this case listening to legal advice might have screwed them over, ultimately.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#762

Post by jacquesm »

senderista wrote: post #755
jacquesm wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This is all consistent and why I think they are in contact with their legal advisors (and if they aren't by now they are beyond stupid).

There's no reason Sam and the board can't come to a mutual agreement that indemnifies the board from liability if they publicly exonerate Sam.

Yes, that's a possibility. But: Sam may not be the only party that has standing and Sam can only negotiate for his own damage and board liability, not for other parties.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#763

Post by mycologos »

gkoberger wrote: post #411
nightski wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt this is directly in support of Altman and more about not imploding the company they work for. But you never know.

I'm sure this is a big part of it. But everyone I know at OpenAI (and outside) is a huge Sam fan.

> everyone I know at OpenAI (and outside) is a huge Sam fan

Everyone you know is a huge Sam fan? What?

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#764

Post by hsavit1 »

pault wrote: post #751
hsavit1 wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who in their right mind has "emotions" and even "loyalty" for a CEO? and so much to the point that they'd quit their jobs over the CEO's departure? the reality is that people didn't join OpenAI because of sam altman. they joined the company because they got paid (handsomely) to do some interesting work.

It’s just an anecdote but I quit a job because the CEO fired an extremely good manager that I worked with. If a company has issues, a good person getting fired can lead to a mass exodus. In my case about half of the developers followed closely after me.

in that case you were losing your immediate manager so your personal circumstances were about to change significantly.

however, in the case of sam altman getting fired, it's not clear that anything that OpenAI is doing is about to change and it's not clear that these devs would suddenly have to change course. Also, it's not like Sam / OpenAI has any integrity anyway - the idea that it's "open" is totally fraudulent.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#765

Post by righthand »

baumy wrote: post #740
righthand wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t make sense. You mean companies like Microsoft and business types like Altman don’t want to release infra to the public. Microsoft and Altman may hide under the guise of “it’s not safe to share this stuff” but they’re intent is capital gain not safety. True safety believers understand that safety comes from a general understanding by everyone and audit-able infra otherwise you have no transparency about t…

You seem to be using a definition of "AI safety believer" that you've reasoned and arrived at yourself. It seems like a reasonable definition and I personally agree with it - the best path to maximal social good is for the ability to build and run these models to be as open and public as possible. I think the "AI safety believers" actually sitting on the board of OpenAI, as well as in other adjacent influential posit…

Do you have sources for these beliefs of the board or is this something ascertained through the huffing and puffing the last few days? Because I do understand that perspective but to me it’s been one painted by the capitalists trying to gain the tech for themselves and we haven’t heard much from the board itself about safety.

From my understanding was that the board wanted a company to safely develop the tech and define what safety means. This would materialize over the next decade once the dangers understood. Eventually Altman convinced them to go private instead of the original open source plans. This change is where the “safety by elites” comes from IMO. We to this day have no real provided definition of what is exactly so unsafe about GPT’s current very easy to identify offering, yet “safety” is thrown around a lot (again primarily by Altman/Microsoft supporters).

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#766

Post by dinobones »

bcherry wrote: post #733
paradite wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't attribute to greed for something sufficiently explained by emotions and loyalty. Their CEO who was doing well as far as anyone can tell, was removed forcibly. It is natural to feel strongly about it.

I think the dispute hinges on what it means to be "doing well". In most companies, you can at least all point to the same thing, even if you disagree on how you get there: creating shareholder value. But in this case, the company was doing things that could be seen as good from a shareholder value perspective, but the board has a different priority. It seems they may think that the company was not working on the righ…

Why should we trust them to “align” their chatbots if they couldn’t even align themselves?

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#768

Post by hsavit1 »

alvah wrote: post #759
hsavit1 wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who in their right mind has "emotions" and even "loyalty" for a CEO? and so much to the point that they'd quit their jobs over the CEO's departure? the reality is that people didn't join OpenAI because of sam altman. they joined the company because they got paid (handsomely) to do some interesting work.

So in every possible scenario it’s wrong to have emotions and loyalty for a CEO, who’s also a human, and may have had a profound, even life-changing effect on you?

Seeing your CEO as a deified subject is a serious crisis in the tech industry

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#769

Post by to11mtm »

stavros wrote: post #717
DalasNoin wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you find this so surprising? You make it sound as if OpenAI is already outrageously safety focused. I have talked to a few people from anthropic and they seem to believe that OpenAI doesn't care at all about safety.

Because GPT-4 is already pretty neutered, to the point where it removes a lot of its usefulness.

In another of the series of threads about all of this, another user opined that the Anthropic AI would refuse to answer the question 'how many holes does a straw have'. Sounds more neutered than GPT-4.

Re: Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO

#770

Post by [deleted] »

iteratethis wrote: post #705

I wish we could all just admit that this is a capital run, rather than some moralistic crusade. The employees want to get their big payday, so will follow Altman wherever he goes. Which is the smart thing to do anyway as he runs half the valley. The public discourse in which Sam is the hero is further cemented by the tech ecosystem, which nowadays is circling around AI. Those in the "OpenAI wrapper" game. Nobody has…

[deleted]
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