Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts • Hacker News Board

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#761

Post by CodeWriter23 » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

ArabicBaklava wrote: post #481

Bank of america did this to me, in the same weekend i was moving out. All my stuff was in the car, it was a friday at 3PM and i was in the gas station. I couldn't fill up my gas. Called and they told me to come to the bank with two forms of ID. When I arrived to the bank the fraud department was operating in NY (3hrs ahead) and they were closing, so they told me to come next tuesday (it was a long weekend). I went ho…

I keep some cash in reserve for these kinds of situations. Not a huge amount but enough to get my family through a week or two of eating and gasoline.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#762

Post by CodeWriter23 » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 5:30 PM UTC

raincom wrote: post #41

Banks hide behind Bank Secrecy Act and other regulations in order to debank people. Chase closed my account, and the reason Chase gave: "Financial institutions have an obligation to know our customers and monitor transactions that flow through our customers' accounts. After careful consideration, we decided to close your account because of unexpected activity on these or another Chase account." I didn't dispute any t…

I'd be curious to know, raincom, did your purchasing history visible to Chase include ammo, firearms, donations to Trump or MAGA politicians, supplies for building an off-grid homestead?

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#763

Post by paulddraper » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 5:30 PM UTC

ArabicBaklava wrote: post #481

Bank of america did this to me, in the same weekend i was moving out. All my stuff was in the car, it was a friday at 3PM and i was in the gas station. I couldn't fill up my gas. Called and they told me to come to the bank with two forms of ID. When I arrived to the bank the fraud department was operating in NY (3hrs ahead) and they were closing, so they told me to come next tuesday (it was a long weekend). I went ho…

> couldn't pay for tuition because my bank acc was locked, so the university dropped my classes

This sentence is simply BIZARRE.

As an example, I'll use the public university geographically closest to me. (University of Utah)

* It requires no payment until two weeks after classes begin. [1]

* It offers monthly payment plans. [2]

* It allows for late payments, with a late fee capped at $75. [2]

This is not the exception. Much like rent, utilities, etc, there is ample consideration for interruption of tuition payment.

---

What institution is as utterly inflexible as you describe?

[1] https://registrar.utah.edu/academic-calendars/fall2023.php

[2] https://fbs.admin.utah.edu/income/tuition/tbc/

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#764

Post by skyde » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 5:31 PM UTC

ArabicBaklava wrote: post #494

ArabicBaklava wrote: post #481

Bank of america did this to me, in the same weekend i was moving out. All my stuff was in the car, it was a friday at 3PM and i was in the gas station. I couldn't fill up my gas. Called and they told me to come to the bank with two forms of ID. When I arrived to the bank the fraud department was operating in NY (3hrs ahead) and they were closing, so they told me to come next tuesday (it was a long weekend). I went ho…

Well, this happened in 2017.. fast forward to this account closure effect on my life: I had to go back to my country, without a degree, was not able to land any job. Unfortunately, good places require degrees. Stayed unemployed, hit with chronic depression as anyone would. Lost 4+ years of professional progress. When covid came, i was able to complete my degree online and graduated in 2021, but because all fresh grad…

What do you mean by "fresh grad programs require a certain age" this seem like an easy lawsuit for age discrimination.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#765

Post by krupan » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 5:50 PM UTC

dale_glass wrote: post #502

krupan wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry for the confusion. The term Bitcoin can be used to refer to the code that runs the Bitcoin network upon which the Bitcoin currency/token moves around and is stored. The inventors could probably have come up with different names for each of those things, but what can you do? Cryptocurrency folks do sometimes take the open source Bitcoin code and make small (or large) changes to it in order to do their work. When…

Yeah, I've messed with the stuff a bit in the past. I understand the technical details decently well. I don't see any significant difference between Bitcoin and the rest. Bitcoin was just the first thing that stuck but that doesn't grant it any special privileges.

If you can't figure out why Bitcoin stuck and the others didn't then maybe you should put a little more effort into understanding the differences. Or just respectfully stay out of these conversations maybe?

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#766

Post by krupan » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 5:54 PM UTC

djaro wrote: post #607

dale_glass wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is crypto. There's even a whole lot of cryptocurrencies based on Bitcoin with a variable or two changed somewhere.

But the problem is, Crypto is full of scams, so to avoid that negative connotation the latest Bitcoin talking point has become "Bitcoin isn't crypto". Which is stupid, because Bitcoin is THE number 1 crypto, but for some reason they're all claiming it isn't.

I guess it depends what you mean by "number 1" but we are claiming that it is the number one best ;)

In all seriousness, it's not just a talking point. Bitcoin's invention, promises, implementation, and operation has significant fundamental differences from all the others. If all you can be bothered to do is say, "yep, they all look the same to me," then maybe just sit out this conversation?

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#767

Post by acdha » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 6:03 PM UTC

krupan wrote: post #757

acdha wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As more addresses are used it gets harder and harder to track. Your employer will not have the resources to do it. First, following a chain is not as hard as you’re making out and there are existing companies which provide that service, which they’d pay just like they do credit reporting agencies - made easier by the fact that they’d be providing most of your income so it’d be starting with a known point. Mixers ca…

Yes, following the chain of addresses is pretty easy, but proving who owns which address is not. Using the new tech like Schnorr signatures is not "a complicated setup" that "has to be maintained perfectly." It is (or will be soon) built-in to the wallet software. You won't have to think about it. Maybe you read a lot about early Bitcoin wallets that didn't even provide unique addresses for each transaction (was that…

> On the business transparency, you seem to completely ignore the cryptographic proof businesses can provide, that's not the same statement that businesses have been making since ancient times. It's a mathematical guarantee.

It’s a mathematical guarantee in the same way that a bank statement is. It’s extremely rare for the problem to be counting things rather than undisclosed debts, embezzlement, etc. and that kind of thing is just as much of a problem for a Bitcoin user because the real world isn’t on the blockchain. If I look at your balance now, that doesn’t mean that you didn’t borrow 90% of that balance from someone else, neglect to mention that you have paid taxes, transfer it the instant after I signed a contract with you, etc. In all of those cases, we end up in a courtroom where a napkin with the CEO’s signature saying “IOU $1,0000,000” and a witness has the same legal weight as the Bitcoin network.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#768

Post by ceejayoz » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 6:15 PM UTC

pauldenton wrote: post #748

ceejayoz wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of “political reasons”?

Well if you want an idea of the political reasons, look for the dog that isn't barking How many of the people waving Taliban flags or HAMAS flags in Britain have been debanked in the past month?

Googling shows (alleged) cases on both ends of the political spectrum. For example, canceling protesters in Atlanta against the "Cop City" project; https://hellgatenyc.com/chase-bank-cancels-cop-city-proteste...

Palestinian aid groups do indeed seem to be getting debanked in the UK from time to time: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2005/jan/03/accounts.israe...

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#769

Post by jstarfish » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 6:18 PM UTC

kylebenzle wrote: post #642

mcny wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a solution - not sure if everyone's ready to hear it yet: Decentralized finance. I want the pendulum to swing the other way. Everybody gets and gets to keep forever an account at the Reserve Bank. > self-hosted Ethereum wallet I'm sorry. The technology might be fine But I simply do not trust the people involved with cryptocurrency. Not just the scammers such as SBF, I don't trust the "victims" to make wise…

I agree, to the point that it's getting harder for me to even have any sympathy when I hear about this issue. Anyone without a good portion of their net worth in crypto is making a huge and obvious mistake.

Note that his story closes with the admission that he was given his money back. When funds get stolen, they can be clawed back (barring issues of institutional willingness to do so).

For everyone whose Bitcoin wallets get stolen, there is no recourse. There is no customer service number to call, no court in which to file suit, and no service agreement over which to sue. Unless you live in some war-torn country where you don't know what government you'll live under tomorrow, putting a good portion of your net worth in an asset so easily stolen (or lost to something as banal as a forgotten encryption key) is a fool's errand.

Disambiguating the above sentiment from another context, we had a huge problem with Indian immigrants becoming victims of home invasions once it became apparent to opportunists that they accumulate and hoard large amounts of gold in their homes.

If you live in a first-world country, playing by third-world rules will pit you against third-world opponents.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#770

Post by jstarfish » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

ta1243 wrote: post #556

fsflover wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't solve the OP's problem.

$200 emergency cash would have allowed him to fill up with gas, and pay for a motel or wherever he was going over the weekend. Having multiple cards would too (I have a debit card and two credit cards, kept at home, but I don't want to be stuck with no money if my wallet/phone gets stolen) I have no idea why a university which had received multiple on time payments would suddenly drop someone off the role for paying…

> I have a debit card and two credit cards, kept at home, but I don't want to be stuck with no money if my wallet/phone gets stolen

Ha. The same problem applies there too, and burned me at some random gas station in the middle of nowhere on the way to Spokane--8pm at night on a Friday--the bank raised a fraud alert on my credit card. The customer service agent said I had to talk to Fraud, who wasn't in until Monday. There were no hotels (not that I could pay for one of those either), nor any other customers to beg for change. We had to buy gas with change found in the seats and a miraculous disbursement of pity from the attendant. (This was an account with some no-name issuer, possibly Credit One. Only American Express and Capital One have ever been reliable for me in travel.)

Separate incident before that related to poor credit on my part at the time, but the issuer reduced my credit limit on a credit account without my knowledge.

You can't trust anything in the "cloud" will be there when you need it. Rather than hoarding gold or traveling with large amounts of cash (welcome back, literal highway robbery) the meddling to protect themselves needs to stop. Every bank is becoming PayPal.