The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression • Hacker News Board

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#761

Post by sillyfluke » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:55 PM UTC

jimt1234 wrote: post #611

gavin_gee wrote: post #594

Some good commentary in this thread, however one topic thats never raised in the topic of affordable housing is fast cheap public transit. I could never imagine being able to buy a house in London. but the train network makes it possible to live in a more affordable neighbourhood and commute as needed. In the US we seem to think that cities can continue to have affordable housing in the most desireable areas. this is…

I've been told since childhood that the main obstacle to inexpensive public transit in the the majority of US is racism - keep those people in their neighborhood . I've never done any sort of research or anything, and even though it's depressing, it sounds plausible.

I was living without a car in an affluent area of SoCal recently and I made the mistake of using google maps to walk to the nearest cafe, which was 20 minutes away.

Google maps literally made me walk on the highway to get there. I later realized local people use the paths through private property to walk where ever (if they ever walk anywhere that is).

Puzzled, I asked someone why there were no sidewalks anywhere. They replied without sarcasm that it's probably because people didn't want to encourage "outsiders" to wander around their neighborhood.

It's race also, but Americans don't know how to talk about class either, lest god forbid the commies take over.

The buses came only once every 2 hours and the closest bus stop itself was at the cafe. When I got on the bus, people realized right way that it was my first rodeo. Everybody on the bus was extremely helpful, chiming in randomly to help me to get to where I needed to go. I'll let you guess their ethnicity.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#762

Post by zackmorris » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:56 PM UTC

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

It's odd to me that the wrong take has risen to the top of the comments, but not surprising. HN isn't what it used to be, demonstrated by how long threads dominate the front page while the actual answers fall below the fold.

Regulation isn't the problem, or even part of the problem. Wealth inequality is. Which is counterbalanced by progressive taxation.

But none of you want the rich to pay taxes, so here we are. Quite literally, this Silent Depression is your fault - the titans of the tech industry.

Since we can't rely on our last best hope for breaking this generational trauma we're trapped in to bring actual solutions like UBI, then tech and the financial system it metastasizes may be the enemy. I've had this feeling for a long time, at least since the Housing Bubble popped, 9/11 and the Dot Bomb, but probably as far back as the Savings and Loan scandal of the 1980s, and even before that with the disingenuous messaging coming out of the Reagan administration before I was old enough to understand politics. I remember the news being filled with imagery of tanks rolling through the Middle East and starving children, asking myself why the world would even have wars or hunger when we have nuclear weapons and billions of dollars that could help people. Until I learned that financial elites stoke those fires to further US hegemony to prevent the owner class from being toppled.

I dunno, I just have this feeling that it's probably over. Young people are looking around and asking why they should take that third job to make rent and feed their kids this month, when that money just goes to paying Boomers' retirements in Vanguard and BlackRock. Maybe they can just take this year off instead, by taking this month's income and camping indefinitely, pulling the plug on the rat race and just living. Eventually forming small communal city states that provide for their citizens while the business world consumes itself since it doesn't produce anything like workers do.

So it's looking like the working world will probably go communist in some fashion for survival. Not just in the US, but in Asia and the Global South. That's what I see in the red state I live in, with the influx of financial refugees, flying the libertarian flag in the frontier towns they've constructed without understanding their own communist tendencies.

While with even the slightest central planning, continuing FDR's New Deal and Johnson's Great Society, we could have been living like the Jetsons in 2023. Instead of selling out for trickle down economics and colonizing our own country with the poors propping up the service industry so that billionaires can richsplain to us how if we just worked harder we could be rich someday too.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#763

Post by etc-hosts » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:56 PM UTC

trident5000 wrote: post #742

etc-hosts wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to find an example of a water system in America that posted cheaper rates after being privatized. I could not. I found a couple of examples of complete disaster though. Do you have any examples I can read about?

Im going to have to decline doing a research project for you. Regardless and back to the main point of my comment - the reason 3/4 of water delivery is a public service is from permitting and other red tape primarily. Not because of reasons having to do with pricing.

You're the one claiming privatizing a water system could be cheaper! I could not find an example. I did try.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#764

Post by ETH_start » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #757

jethro_tell wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If zoning regulations mean you're only going to be able to service 1/4 of the annual new construction demand, then the smart money is on serving the high end of the market. If things get zoned in a way that you can serve the whole market and not just the top end, you can bet that people will figure out how to build those units too. The market has been artificially constrained so that developers are making the choice…

Most of the markets in goods and services seem to evolve towards hollowing out the middle: companies offer either bottom-tier garbage or luxury price (but not necessarily luxury quality) options for those not price-sensitive. What makes people think housing is different? That with unencumbered ability to build, we'll end up with decent-quality, livable, mid-tier apartments? Other markers show we should expect a mix o…

Not true. Automobiles have become vastly better at all price points over the last 50 years. Safer, more fuel efficient and longer-lasting. The same applies to smartphones, PCs, televisions, etc. And laser eye surgery. And passenger air travel since the Carter administration de-centralized (de-regulated) it in the late 1970s.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#765

Post by theGnuMe » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

tinco wrote: post #502

cogman10 wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What government policy would allow for a 2k apartment building and not a $500 apartment building? I just don't buy this argument. The reason there's not a $500 apartments being built is because by expanding the residence out just a tiny bit you can charge $2000 for the same space that 2 $500 apartments would occupy. I'm seeing this play out where I live that has practically no zoning laws or regulations (LOTS of buil…

Not the US, but here real estate developers are complaining that modern stringent building code requirements (i.e. gas free, highly insulated) combined with high labor costs make it so that it is infeasible to build lower income housing. I think the bigger problem is that land value is insanely high in The Netherlands right now, but there's probably a truth in the middle as well. Land costs might be lower in the US,…

That’s all smoke and mirrors from the builders. Most high end luxury features are cheap to install but they can charge a lot for them.

Lot size and location will matter but now they put houses right next to each other.

Townhomes with shared walls are even cheaper!

Builders will also complain about inspections though since time is money… but if you don’t have them they will take shortcuts.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#766

Post by ta1243 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:58 PM UTC

HEmanZ wrote: post #715

ta1243 wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you avoid elevators?

This isn’t a fair comparison, and you have to be arguing in bad faith to say this. I have never seen someone pull out a gun, tweak out and rip out the hair of the girl sitting in front of them, or shit themselves, on an elevator. I have seen all of these on public transport in Seattle. From another city, my younger brother was on the L in Chicago when a gun went off. Someone shot into the ceiling, no one got hurt, bu…

I've never seen any of that on any public transport anywhere in the world. I've been in an elevator when someone's thrown up though.

Majority of elevators I take tend to be open to the public -- car parks being a big one.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#767

Post by XTHK » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:59 PM UTC

DontchaKnowit wrote: post #447

momirlan wrote: post #91

this is the generation that had it best: jobs for life, good benefits, cheap houses, etc. they also destroyed the planet with their "American dream" style consumption. what's coming for the new generations if these are suffering ?

I see this perspective a lot, and I really don't understand it. Millennials have it pretty damn good as well. And everyone wants to ignore how difficult the 80s were as far as jobs, housing, etc. Boomers got bumblefucked in the 80s. Interest rates for home loans were abysmal, small banks failed all over the place, business loans got called, etc etc. I think the only thing gen z or millennials really have to complain…

Labor rights degraded quite a bit between boomers and millennials. Hell, it has degraded between Millennials and gen z! Our current economic model is not sustainable. It is a cancer.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#768

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:59 PM UTC

digging wrote: post #662

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn't been lost. Some of us are just old enough to remember what the projects were like, and we're glad they're gone.

Nope, you're just old enough to remember the propaganda. Social housing (in the US) has always been underfunded to make it look bad. It was a worst-of-both-worlds compromise which served to undermine confidence in government and promote racism. There is literally no reason a municipal government can't run high quality social housing. That's why it happens, outside of the US.

> has always been underfunded to make it look bad. I

Yes, the "secret capitalists hiding in the woodpile" theory of why communism sucks.

You, of course, are immune to the other side's propaganda, and your own brain is a perfect simulator of the real world so you've run mental experiments that prove to you irrefutably how awesome it would be. If only other people paid for it for you.

> That's why it happens, outside of the US.

This is shit throughout all of western civilization. Go check out Ireland, or any place in Europe right now. It's shit everywhere.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#769

Post by Slava_Propanei » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:00 PM UTC

gavin_gee wrote: post #594

Some good commentary in this thread, however one topic thats never raised in the topic of affordable housing is fast cheap public transit. I could never imagine being able to buy a house in London. but the train network makes it possible to live in a more affordable neighbourhood and commute as needed. In the US we seem to think that cities can continue to have affordable housing in the most desireable areas. this is…

[dead]

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#770

Post by stevenicr » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:02 PM UTC

cornercasechase wrote: post #610

GenerocUsername wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Available transit needs to include safe transit. The current bus and light rail situation has turned off swaths of the working class to support the dredges of the drug-addict class by their lack of fare-enforcement and other low-end enabling schemes that sound great on paper, but lead to complicated downstream chilling effects on the entire region.

Public transit is much safer than driving in your car. Someone skipping fare does not compare to even a light fender bender.

I think it's important with discussions like these to include the city or area, and time period.

I can say for sure that the subway in DC was better and safer than cars for the most part, when I was there many moons ago -

However if you look at the people who are riding the bus in my current city, or at the times when I was in Vegas.. and I've heard the NY subway at night is nothing like the DC subway..

These discussions can have all people right and all people wrong when they are discussing how they view their apples to others oranges.