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Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

electrek.co

761–770 of 773 posts

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If their business model is broken, it's their problem. You bought a car, paid for the car, and that car has heated seats. Now they want more money for using hardware you already bought, paid for and received. I would understand if they had recurring costs with your heated seats (like they do with eg. a music streaming service or something like that), but nope, they sold you the hardware and now are blackmailing you f…

You paid for a car with non-functional heated seats. You got a car with non-functional heated seats. I agree that if people figure out how to easily enable those seats they have a problem. Because now they are getting less payment for those seats (as some people are using them without paying). But that doesn't make it wrong to sell you a car with non-functional heated seat hardware. > blackmailing you They aren't bla…

You bought a car with functioning heated seats, where the manufacturer intentionally implemented a lockout system, so you can't use them unless you pay. This is like buying a house with an extra room, but the door is locked until you pay. Yes, you own the house, you own the room, you can break the lock, but if a shitty timing chain breaks within the warranty period, the fact that you broke the lock on that room will cause the manufacturer to complain and not want to fix the timing chain because you supposedly voided the warrantly.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#762
I would have said I'm surprised that so many "hAcKeRz" are eager to prostrate themselves at the altar of eternal rent-seeking and powerlessness, but a lot of people here love simping for profit extractors, especially Lord Xoldermort. Another day, another rote disappointment.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just big tech; there's a reason why "you will own nothing and be happy" is a thing.

Interesting quote. I just came across the exact quote reading the latest of "The Upheaval" by N.S. Lyon

It originally came from the WEF:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25068820

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The manufacturing cost between a car with heated seats and without headset seats is functioningaflly meaningful I don't believe that is the case. BMW determined it was more expensive to have the supply chain, inventory, and manufacturing management to build both heated and non-heated versions of their seats. Rather than just make heated seats a standard feature they saw an opportunity to maintain and even expand th…

Also keep in mind that heated seats may not be the only option available. If you add in a few other options like backup camera, self driving/driver assist and maybe a few more you end up making a dozen or so different production lines and complex logistics. If you have a dozen features you are basically making custom cars at this point. It can definitely be cheaper to make a single model of car and lock features inst…

Congratulations on getting six zeros in your comment id: 37000000.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#765
post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't care about any of that; we just care about HN discussions being fresh and interesting vs. tedious and boring. Generic flamewar tangents are the latter, especially when they're re-repeated as often as this one has, so please don't take threads in those directions. If you have a substantive point to make about resale value, or something like that, that's totally fine, as long as you do it in a way that isn't f…

which is why I made a substantive point.

"I guess you could trade it in for a real car" is not a substantive point, it's a sneering putdown - basically the same joke as https://web.archive.org/web/20190304153147/https://dilbert.c....

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sooner or later, some city is going to be held for ransom by a group that has disabled (or hijacked) all of the Teslas in it. "Give us a king's ransom or your roads will be clogged with immovable cars, and thus unusable, for weeks". Right now, there are not enough software-hijackable cars on the road for this to work, but that is changing. Once you have a critical mass of perhaps even just 5% of the cars, you can bri…

Curious, why do that, and not say attack the power grid?

Well, that may happen too, but you don't want to impair the victim city's ability to pay the ransom. But, I'm afraid, we'll just have to see which happens first.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think you should be allowed to change your brake pads? How about bleed your brake lines?

Yes, I would trust people to generally be competent enough. Writing your own self driving software, go ahead, as long as your driving on private land I have no issue.

But nobody is writing self-driving software. They are jail breaking the existing software.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I would trust people to generally be competent enough. Writing your own self driving software, go ahead, as long as your driving on private land I have no issue.

But nobody is writing self-driving software. They are jail breaking the existing software.

There is someone posting about exactly that on this post.

https://github.com/d4l3k/torchdrive

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Having a software unlock for hardware you already have (but didn't pay for in the price). Fine. Tolerable, perhaps, but pretty far from fine. It's pretty shocking to me that people in our society build things and then deliberately break them so they can make more money. Is this really the best system we can come up with? We have built a society where what is plainly crazy is rational.

> Tolerable, perhaps, but pretty far from fine. It's pretty shocking to me that people in our society build things and then deliberately break them so they can make more money. Is this really the best system we can come up with? It's not as bad as it looks. If you think about it, it's basically a form of wealth redistribution. Rich people will pay the premium, which subsidizes the cost of the car for others. In other…

This is a really good comment about uniform production and subsidy of base models that would otherwise make a loss.

The margin on a car isn't the margin on the materials and labour of that individual car on the line.

Many base models barely break even and recoup some costs in dealer servicing, finance and whatnot.

If software locks (not subscription) enable more of the subsidising then I'm all for it. Also I'm for it as hackers we can get around the limitations.

Rent seeking is always a bad thing for the consumer however.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#770

I'm torn. On one hand, I absolutely think that a capability available in the vehicle/device when you purchased it should be available for you to use, and not behind a software lock (heated seats, etc). On the other hand, an "upgrade" or 100% new software delivered via OTA (self driving, etc) seems a little more like it should be a separate thing.

It's relatively clear to me... Features cost money, so I should pay for them. Wether that's via an option package (traditional) at order time OR via a software update (Tesla) after purchase doesn't matter. BUT! As long as that feature doesn't have recurring costs to the manufacturer (heated seats), it should be a one-time fee, and transfer with ownership. Something like self-driving, where there might be an active in…

> BUT! As long as that feature doesn't have recurring costs to the manufacturer (heated seats), it should be a one-time fee, and transfer with ownership.

What if it's a sort of payment plan?

E.g. if we assume heated seats costs $1000 and the consumer wants to pay for this monthly over ten years then it'll be 1000/12/10=$8.33 plus interest per month.

Of course, this should mean that once repaid, it's the property of the owner and therefore transferred at resale.

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