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Why I Left Rust

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Re: Why I Left Rust

#761

Post by jorenbroekema »

drew-y wrote: post #544
Roark66 wrote: post #294

I was with you until this part: >It was JeanHeyd who called Rust out for having no Black representation among Rust conference speakers. Rightly so, as both the Rust organization and the conferences had little to no Black representation. Am I the only one that considers such arbitrary "diversity enforcement policy" horribly racist? No organisation should be "called out for a lack of - insert-race-here- representation…

I see where you're coming from and it's clear you have strong feelings on this matter. However, I believe there might be a misunderstanding here. The goal of diversity initiatives isn't about devaluing any particular group, it's about ensuring that the opportunities and benefits are more equitably distributed across different communities. When someone mentions a 'lack of Black representation', they're not saying that…

What makes you think speaker slots aren't equitably distributed? If there are 4 black Rust devs among every 100 Rust devs and there are 10 speaker slots, odds are there are no black speakers but that would still be an equitable distribution.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#763

Post by estebank »

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #751
estebank wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pray tell, who do you think are non-technical people in https://www.rust-lang.org/governance

Everyone here knows exactly who I am talking about. That isn't who the leadership is (as you well know).

I honestly have no clue who you are talking about.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#764

Post by Lammy »

indy wrote: post #88
junon wrote: post #77

Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…

Much less weight should be given to someone "feeling uncomfortable" Rust the language is pretty good but the community around it has become really off-putting. The thick veneer of empathy and compassion quickly devolves into "idiot compassion" and emotional blackmail. Even the linked post contains the following: "I left because when I felt JeanHeyd's pain and disappointment at being mistreated and betrayed, my heart…

> Much less weight should be given to someone "feeling uncomfortable"

Ironic https://gcc.gnu.org/pipermail/gcc/2021-March/235124.html

Re: Why I Left Rust

#765

Post by wadd1e »

marcosdumay wrote: post #518
wadd1e wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It all seems so fabulously irrelevant Except (in my opinion) it's not, if the set of people responsible for the progress of the technology you(and mabye your company) are going to be using are able to make such terrible decisions, it opens doors for far worse on a scale where you will start to care(take a look at the code of conduct stuff(edit: I meant the trademark stuff); if they went ahead with it, which is very…

It means that, like everything that started at Mozilla, Rust will have some uncomfortable growth phase and then mature at some group that may or may not be the original one. We can expect some mildly bad decisions on the language evolution. But it's very unlikely that this will open a niche for another language to replace Rust.

Only thing I can really see is mabye go/zig gaining more adoption but I don't think we're even close to that point yet, what's worrying is even discussing something like this happening in the first place. Ideally this sort of thing shouldn't even cross our minds.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#767

Post by grt_thr »

xyzzyz wrote: post #484
fatneckbeard wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I worry about this. There was no "C leadership", it was simple enough that dozens of people created their own compilers within a few years of C existing. this was back before the internet. they had companies sprouting up like Borland just making C compilers for personal home computers. C just ... spread. All these kids learning Arduino in school, they are learning C. There basically is no other usable compiler t…

Rust is winning market from C and C++ precisely because of strong technical leadership and direction. It couldn’t have made much progress by taking similar hands off approach as C, because C is already more than good enough C.

[flagged]

Re: Why I Left Rust

#768

Post by JyB »

dagmx wrote: post #749
slily wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you been judged by the color of your skin Yes. I'm pretty sure I've been judged for every single one of my identifiable immutable characteristics. For my skin color, out loud in the street, for sure when I lived in a place where I was the minority. > and denied opportunities Do you mean directly, aside from that conference where white males were told to attend less, or my employer openly favoring people who ar…

Told to attend less because there needed to be space for other demographics? That’s not discrimination because it’s not preventing white men from attending, it’s just allowing other people to also attend unless you believe that you’re also somehow better than everyone who was allowed to attend. the same goes for favouring people in your job. If you have a systemic issue in your place of work, then report it. But othe…

You are talking past each other. I just see bad faith.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#769

Post by carterisonline »

Lanz wrote: post #361

I love how everything has to be spun into something about race by the left. You win today's award for the Wokest Bloke.

I wouldn't say they made it about race. The main point of this post still the situation with JeanHeyd. However, a post like this is probably the best place to lay out some of the other issues concerning Rust's team, and representation is a very real issue! Of the people with bachelors+ degrees in computer science in the US, only 6% are black; under half of the population percentage of black Americans (https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf23315/report/stem-workforce-wi..., Figure 6-3)

I don't think discussion like this hurts anyone. I wish diversity was the default and we wouldn't need to discuss these issues, but we don't live in that world.

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