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I wish GPT4 had never happened

chaudhry.notion.site

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Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#761

Post by corbulo »

TrueDuality wrote: post #309
netbioserror wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a profoundly naive opinion. Most people find meaning, fulfillment, even contentment in working, especially when the problems are engaging and the solutions produce value. Many people claim their lives would be better if they never had to work, but they are bullshitting themselves with childhood naivete. Not working is a sucking void of boredom, nihilism, hedonism, and despair. I've been through some of that befo…

I think your response is equally naive. I am still largely undecided on whether something like a universal basic income would actually be a net positive for society, but the fallacy that receiving a fixed income immediately means that people won't do something productive with their time is ridiculous. I can't imagine _not_ working, I develop open source software in my free time and I would spend more time producing s…

Lockdowns were already a test of exactly what you're saying here.

When almost no one had to work economics became ridiculous, people were paying $40 for a $15 meal to be delivered to them, fiscal policy became clinically insane, tech stocks minted a new bubble. Are you proposing that bubble should be more permanent? The real economics of 'figure it out or lose your lunch' is much better policing than 'figure it out or go back to UBI'.

Burning an entire generation so the next one will be better isn't good policy.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#762

Post by alchemist1e9 »

proamdev123 wrote: post #414
alchemist1e9 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s odd how we have such different experiences. As an example yesterday I had GPT4 take an existing python script, clean it up, add timing statistics and progress bars. 10 mins works. Would have taken me probably 1 hour. I do think you have a point about it being most useful for trivial or boilerplate problems but it’s still very useful as there is always much of that.

How long was the script you provided as a prompt (roughly how many LOC)? I’m curious because it seems like perhaps providing longer, detailed prompts (and then iterating) might be the best approach for getting coding help. Thoughts?

Yes absolutely I’m explicit and have used with 100+ LOC easily on GPT4.

Remember to tell it is an expert XYZ programmer, that will actually make it produce better code.

iterative is best approach. I add one feature at a time. I also provide the errors/exceptions for fixing.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#763

Post by sveme »

shagie wrote: post #125
sveme wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that would require that we start taxing companies far more and stop the global tax evasion mechanisms. I fear automation is just going to further increase inequality and devastate the middle class. But that has been predicted for every new increase in automation, so maybe we‘ll be wrong again.

> But that would require that we start taxing companies far more Instead of thinking of things like "payroll tax" and such being a tax on humans - change it to a tax on (for lack of a better word) productivity. Tax the robots. https://news.mit.edu/2022/robot-tax-income-inequality-1221 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_tax https://fortune.com/2023/02/21/bernie-sanders-bill-gates-rob... ( https://archive.is/Y90NU )

Wouldn‘t this be a tax on capital, in the end? In the end, we might reach the marxist stage of history - we should all own the robots that produce our stuff.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#764

Post by s__s »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #480
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #29

The big oversight here is that Priya does not want a job , what Priya wants is an income . The point of life is not working, the point of life is to enjoy it. We should strive to eliminate as many jobs as we possibly can, the less we have to work the better it is. To make this possible we need to find a way to a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income .

Yes, exactly! Imagine as a thought experiment that we can produce everything we do today, but with zero labor due to automation. This would be a miracle for humanity! For one thing, we could use all our free time however we want, including working to produce still more stuff, or just go hiking. The real problem is how to distribute the goods and services produced - and there a UBI is probably the right answer. Machin…

As soon as you rely on UBI to live you’ve lost all control of your own life. Your a child with an allowance. The state has absolute authority over you.

The government is already controlled and influenced primarily by nefarious interests. I can’t even begin to imagine how nasty it gets when the entire population relies on them for mere sustenance.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#765

Post by stefanfisk »

cambaceres wrote: post #749
HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

I don’t know what country you live in, but I can tell you how it is in Sweden. As a freelancer I pay appropriately 70% of what I charge in taxes. How high do you think taxes can get before people stop putting energy into raising their productivity?

As a fellow Swedish freelancer I’d like to know how you calculate that. Or are you doing B2C?

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#766

Post by derefr »

simonh wrote: post #756
HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

The fact that anyone today thinks that any other economic system we’ve ever tried is any better than the one we have is a damning indictment of our education system.

Who said anything about knowing any good alternatives to the current system that could be switched to? If it was that easy, some country would have done it already, and they’d be winning the OECD.

I think the suggestion is rather that we are morally compelled as a society, to invest real effort into inventing something new to replace neoliberal capitalism.

States could, for example, be sponsoring experiments to validate new economic models, through e.g. low-barrier-to-entry applications for charter cities and other autonomous zones, as long as the applicant can show that 1. there is a novel economic model at play, and that 2. the zone is being carefully monitored to collect data for analysis by the Economics department of a major academic institution.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#767

Post by cambaceres »

__pache__ wrote: post #755
cambaceres wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know what country you live in, but I can tell you how it is in Sweden. As a freelancer I pay appropriately 70% of what I charge in taxes. How high do you think taxes can get before people stop putting energy into raising their productivity?

[flagged]

I’m still a high earner so I’m fine. I still have approximately $7500/month after my taxes are paid. That’s a lot since all medical care, 1 year parental leave, my kids education from kindergarten through high school etc are “free”, e.g. paid with my taxes.

My point was not to complain but to say to the guy that claims that we need a new system with more wealth distribution that those systems already exist. There are a limit though to how high you can tax someone before they stop producing.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#768

Post by spaceman_2020 »

dns_snek wrote: post #715
hunter-gatherer wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is where the scare comes from though. It used to be that churning out good code really did take a lot of experience. But as we lower that bar, the value a computer programmer has may begin to diminish. If everyone can spit out 200 lines of code in a day, thrn hiw valuable are you, really? I analyze malware for a living, and don't consider myself a strong developer, though I can write programs, obviously.…

> But as we lower that bar, the value a computer programmer has may begin to diminish. As a developer, I feel like it's the opposite. If anything, it's going to raise the bar by replacing low skilled coders who are only good at cheaply producing piles of future tech debt, GPT4 will do that sort of work for 'free'. On the other hand it's going to empower non-programmers to write or debug low complexity scripts on thei…

I’ve personally been asking chatGPT design decisions about databases and app structure. I give it some starting ideas and ask it what would be the best path to achieve some stated goals. It gives me the options and tells me what would be the best path.

I’ve asked experienced developer friends and they say that they would likely have similar discussions among themselves. Except now chatgpt is doing that.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#770

Post by surgical_fire »

ilaksh wrote: post #759
robomartin wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My experience with it is that the more knowledgeable I am at the domain, the more useful it is. Exactly right. I made this argument in an unrelated thread: I gave an example of testing ChatGPT by asking it to write CRC calculation code in ARM assembler. The code worked. It wasn’t as good as mine (slower, inefficient), yet, as you said, as a starting point, it would have been fine. “This is today, mid 2023. Give it…

But if we find any web page or document that has your knowledge of what makes ARM code fast and feed that into GPT4 (up to say 80kb of assembly with short comments) along with the task then we don't need you to do that anymore. AI in fact can use any tool, including AI tools, to deliver value in almost any domain. So the problem with the comments here in this thread is that the obvious conclusion is that we need some…

Do it.

I've been challenging everyone that LARPs about the capabilities of GPT to start a business now, and use it in place of developers. Hell, for a $20 account you get the perfect developer, that is extremely productive, never gets tired, never gets sick, and has no PTO.

What is stopping you?

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