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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#761

Post by edzillion »

mrfumier wrote: post #698
dahfizz wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would argue that people just use their bank account for such large payments these days. Yup, and now they are _forced_ to. Its a single point of failure. One which the government conveniently has control over. I'm surprised the HN crowd isn't grasping this more clearly. Backups are important.

Government has control of your cash just as well. If the central bank decides your bills are not recognized anymore, or that they want to print 1000% more of it, your cash value changes.

Which is Mutually Assured Destruction. I can't think of many occasions in which financial elites would destroy their own wealth in pursuit of political (?) goals.

The one incident I can think of didn't end well.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#762

Post by sgjohnson »

namdnay wrote: post #714
sgjohnson wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A cashiers check costs what? 10, 20 euros? Virtually nobody in Europe uses checks (in my country they are explicitly banned as a tender). It’s either cash or a bank transfer, and for such purchases, most people really prefer cash. > And we’re talking about how it can impact real people here, not the 0.1% who gamble 10 years’ minimum wage at the casino in one evening Most professional poker players are staked. They…

Cashiers cheques, not personal ones. And for pro poker players, they can just wire the money to the casino Honestly I don’t see any moment in my life in a developed economy where I or anyone around me has needed more than a few hundred in cash

> Cashiers cheques, not personal ones.

Yes. Virtually nobody uses them in Europe.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#763

Post by Khaine »

odessacubbage wrote: post #620
franey wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't, no. It was meant to clarify for other readers that people didn't have their bank accounts frozen for protesting COVID; they had their bank accounts frozen for financially supporting or participating in an illegal occupation of a city centre. Your point stands that governments/courts decide what is illegal and that they have the power to freeze bank accounts when those accounts are used to fund illegal acti…

it is worth remembering that occupy wallstreet was also declared 'an illegal occupation of a city centre'

This is one of those 'it's ok when we do it' scenarios. Where its okay when occupy wallstreet, Antifa or another leftist cause occupy somewhere 'illegally', but not those damn truckers.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#764

Post by nicbou »

SergeAx wrote: post #648
yrgulation wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of eu countries have a threshold of how much you can pay in cash, and it works just fine. No one is missing hospital treatment because of it and even illiterate folks can use banks and open accounts.

Well, tell that to Russian war emigrants. Opening bank account in EU for non-residents is a hard endeavor right now. Those who did it before the hot part of war started in February often finding their accounts frozen and literally were unable to receive their paychecks.

I can confirm this. I devoted a section of my website (about immigration) to immigrant-friendly banks.

Many banks have restrictions that make it hard for immigrants to open an account, even though they're entitled to one by law.

For example, many banks use the same ID verification services, and those don't recognise Indian passports. Others refuse Americans because they're a bureaucratic nightmare to deal with. Others require a registered address which is hard to get without a bank account. Others require a residence permit or even permanent residency. You usually need a bank account before you have either.

Bureaucracy gets messy at the edges.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#765

Post by martin8412 »

Zircom wrote: post #598
Teandw wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't trust a smartphone app provided by their banking provider but they trust a random bloke they've never met with 10k in their back pocket. Right. Makes sense.

Scenario one - Person A bank transfers Person B $10,000 for their classic car at the car show. Person A leaves, and then several days later the money is clawed back from Person B's account as it turns out it was sent from a stolen/compromised account. They now have no money and no car. Scenario two - Person A gives Person B $10,000 in cash for their classic car at the car show. Person A leaves, and Person B could giv…

In scenario two, person B goes tries to use the cash, turns out it's counterfeit. They now have no money and no car.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#766

Post by NumberlessMan »

franey wrote: post #619
naniwaduni wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bank accounts were frozen for some people who donated money to support an illegal occupation of part of Canada's capital city, Ottawa. The occupation was a mix of people protesting COVID measures and others demanding that Justin Trudeau resign. There's certainly ... nuance you're taking for granted in declaring a mix of political protest and political protest illegal.

We're getting pretty off topic, but it wasn't what they were protesting that was illegal, it was how they did it. For a US comparison, First Amendment rights don't include a right to occupy city streets for weeks, even if you're doing it to protest the government.

Was occupy wall street not a protest? Should bank accounts have been frozen to donators to that cause?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#767

Post by newaccount74 »

acatton wrote: post #437
ilyt wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car, house, selling/buying land etc. Mostly coz many banks take % cut on big money tranfers so taking it out and just giving it to someone in a bag is sometimes tens of thousands cheaper

This doesn't apply to most EU countries. (Nuance: I'm not well versed in the legal system of countries part of the Bucharest Nine group, hence my "most") In most of the EU, buying land and houses is done through a notary services. Depending on the country, you either do a SEPA transfer directly to the notary, and they then send it to the other party. Or, in other countries, you do the SEPA transfer to the other party…

The funny thing is, that cash is often used for deals, because you general have to pay taxes and fees depending on the value.

So someone might officially pay 20.000€ for a piece of land, pay the taxes and fees based on that price, but pay the remaining 60.000€ in cash.

Obviously this is illegal, but the notaries are in on it.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#768

Post by chii »

engineer_22 wrote: post #664
gruez wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Bank accounts were frozen for some people who donated money to support an illegal occupation of part of Canada's capital city, Ottawa. Were they a designated criminal group at the time of donation? It seems strange to go after the donors rather than freezing the bank accounts of the recipients. The way I see it, there are only two possibilities: 1. the groups in question were declared criminal organizations, and the…

>1. the groups in question were declared criminal organizations, and therefore their bank accounts should be frozen and future donations should be blocked/banned Should criminals be denied all access to the financial system? Even if the criminal is not receiving money for criminal cause? Do criminals have the right to buy food?

they do, but that right also comes with responsibility, which by virtue of them committing a crime, they have to answer for. If they escape the authorities, freezing their financial accounts is not completely out of the ordinary, and forces them to confront the authorities.

So yes, they have the right to buy food, but also the obligation to answer for their crimes in an open court. Can't have one without the other.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#769

Post by martin8412 »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #718
mrfumier wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody as a normal person pays 10k€ in cash. Not even 1000 €.

Just paid a multiple of €1000 to a contractor for building me a shed. So?

Yea.. I'm sure he'll remember to report that money to the tax authorities.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#770

Post by MonkeyClub »

tastysandwich wrote: post #506

A similar thing was attempted in Australia [1]. I just ask people to consider that even though we all have bank accounts and we take that for granted, there _are_ actually people who don't, and they're not operating a criminal enterprise. My grandparents came as refugees. My grandfather has never had a bank account. He bought a car with $50 bills once. It was so funny, they were all stuck together and the clerk had t…

> In his home country, you couldn't trust the banks, so people hid their money. Of course that kind of thinking is silly in Australia

If I had to choose between the two positions, one of implicit trust and another of implicit mistrust towards banks, I would consider the latter choice to be the saner and safer one.

The push for no cash is real, and it’s becoming more real with every constriction of cash transactions and with every CBDC trial.

As the BIS chairman said, the goal is total knowledge of every financial transaction. Fanfares about financial inclusiveness seem to me little more than marketing quips, the actual goal being zero financial privacy.

Now, one may wonder, why would a law-abiding citizen require any modicum of privacy - have they anything to hide? After all, “transparency” is a nice notion, right?

I think the answer is that privacy is a fundamental right, something that all the scaremongering about criminal enterprises is used to corrode.

Not to mention that “transparency for thee but not for me” isn’t real transparency.

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