Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nobody wants to teach anymore

jessicalexicus.medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

761–770 of 1001 posts

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#761

Post by msrenee »

tptacek wrote: post #682
greedo wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My school district is in a middle sized city with a dominant land grant university. A starting teacher makes $40k. Requires both a BA and a teaching credential. Hours are long, and teachers spend a decent amount of money for out of pocket supplies, especially at some of the schools that despite level funding seem to get the short end of the stick. IT in my area pays anyone with a pulse and basic computer skills $40k.…

I don't deny that there are teachers getting shafted all over the US; I'd just want people to know that the deal in many (most? all?) major urban school districts is surprisingly strong.

One suburban school district that you know of. I'm sure there are others. I'm not sure how you're extrapolating to many or all major urban school districts.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#762

Post by BLKNSLVR »

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #351
analog31 wrote: post #247

The US has always experienced relentless political activism against public education. This creates a climate where teachers, and the institution they work in, are actively hated by a wide swath of the public. This is due in no small part to proponents of religious education. It's true that teachers receive an above-average salary, but that can be both a blessing and a curse. The curse is that your wages are a matter…

> The US has always experienced relentless political activism against public education. Lol we spend almost 3x more on k-12 public education now (inflation adjusted) than we did in 1960. I really doubt the relentless political activism was on the side against public education. Really, the cost to educate a child should have gone down substantially relative to inflation given new technologies that make teaching easier…

Please describe in detail the technologies that have made teaching easier and faster, and how you've implemented then to make teaching easier and faster, and the before and after results that show "teaching successfully completed easier and faster".

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#763

Post by tptacek »

msrenee wrote: post #761
tptacek wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't deny that there are teachers getting shafted all over the US; I'd just want people to know that the deal in many (most? all?) major urban school districts is surprisingly strong.

One suburban school district that you know of. I'm sure there are others. I'm not sure how you're extrapolating to many or all major urban school districts.

I've looked at a bunch of them (I have this argument somewhat frequently). But, sure: let's find some examples. What's a major metro where you think teachers probably get a raw deal? This is easy data to pull up.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#764

Post by cultofmetatron »

donatj wrote: post #198
SamuelAdams wrote: post #22

> Demoralization is what happens when you spend years becoming an expert in a subject area, and nobody cares. They’d rather hire another MBA to make all the important decisions, while they stick us on committees writing reports for ghosts. That’s when teachers start to withdraw from their jobs, when we realize it doesn’t matter what we think, and it definitely doesn’t matter how amazing we are at what we do. This was…

I think there's a point though where people are so deep in it, they can't see the forest through the trees anymore. Security, as you mentioned, is definitely a balance with what your users will actually want to do. Security experts see doomsday scenarios everywhere, but if their solution is a hassle, your customers will just go to the less secure competitor. I’ve worked with DBAs who were absolutely experts and knew…

Id argue a DBA who doesn't understand the practical value of judicious use of denormalization isn't YET an expert. knowing when to dry your data and when to optimize for a specific usage pattern is part of being an "expert."

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#765

Post by missedthecue »

jayski wrote: post #724
prepend wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> teachers work more in 9 months than most professionals I want to understand this more and think we need to measure this well. As a software dev, I’ve always struggled with measuring the amount of work performed and usually disregard measures of intellectual output as misleading measures (eg, lines of code, story points completed, whatever). What makes you think teachers work more in 9 months than a typical professi…

I've been working as a software dev for 20+ years,the only time I actually truly worked 60+ hours a week was when I was attempting to get my own startup off the ground. Other than that, it's usually been 10-15 of actual work work. Really not trying to brag, but to bring context to the conversation,I make 10 times what a teacher makes. I think it's a real problem teachers are underpaid and undervalued. IMO schools sho…

I just did the math. Paying every teacher $150k would cost more than my entire local district gets in total funding every year.

That's a lot of new property taxes.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#766

Post by r3trohack3r »

juve1996 wrote: post #666
r3trohack3r wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People with kids will tell you how well "internet education" went the last 2 years We had a bunch of school districts with little to no experience running distance education, with a vested interest in return-to-classroom, all attempt to implement an online curriculum practically overnight. I don't consider it fair to consider that "online learning" or an earnest attempt at a successful home schooling curriculum. To…

The problems aren't technology related. No amount of curriculum change will make a parent be able to WFH forever or provide enough attention for their child because they're too busy putting food on their table and working to the only metric that matters above all else for their outcomes: money. > To drive that point home, a family I know in Washington State had two kids in the school district during that disaster. Th…

> Yea, we get it, some people can afford homeschooling and have time to do it. That doesn't scale nationwide.

I think you're cutting exactly to the core of it. We conflate child sitting with education and end up with a bad version of both.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#767

Post by galaxyLogic »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #742
galaxyLogic wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teacher's job is no doubt stressful. Therefore I think we must invent new ways of automating the teaching, amplify the powers of a single teacher. That way there will be enough teachers to provide for every child. Not sure how to get there. But what about the adult population? I think large swaths of it are in need of more education. Math literacy, evidence-based evaluation of propaganda. Large portion of US populati…

Or, and hear me out: we could cut our military budget (which is larger than the next ten or so countries combined, both total and per capita) and start tipping the corporate tax share back towards the ~%50 it was sixty years ago and magically be able to: * pay teachers a fair wage * hire enough teachers, assistants, and admins so that teachers don't have to work at least another half a workday 'off the books' * fund…

I'm not familiar with US Private vs. Public schools so which one requires you to pay for the lunch?

In many countries in Europe there are only public schools.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#768

Post by SamReidHughes »

prepend wrote: post #416
jschveibinz wrote: post #365

I am an early-retired EE and I thought that I could have a second career in teaching HS physics. I got the MA Teaching in Maryland, and did my one year student teaching assignment. My thoughts: 1. The degree program was decent, although a certificate program would be better for prior professionals if the law allowed it (lower cost, too much wasted time in redundant classes). 2. Teachers are sad. Very sad. They are un…

> teachers work more in 9 months than most professionals I want to understand this more and think we need to measure this well. As a software dev, I’ve always struggled with measuring the amount of work performed and usually disregard measures of intellectual output as misleading measures (eg, lines of code, story points completed, whatever). What makes you think teachers work more in 9 months than a typical professi…

Actual time teachers spend working has, of course, been measured.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf https://www.bls.gov/mlr/1999/04/art4full.pdf

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#769

Post by cruano »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #742
galaxyLogic wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teacher's job is no doubt stressful. Therefore I think we must invent new ways of automating the teaching, amplify the powers of a single teacher. That way there will be enough teachers to provide for every child. Not sure how to get there. But what about the adult population? I think large swaths of it are in need of more education. Math literacy, evidence-based evaluation of propaganda. Large portion of US populati…

Or, and hear me out: we could cut our military budget (which is larger than the next ten or so countries combined, both total and per capita) and start tipping the corporate tax share back towards the ~%50 it was sixty years ago and magically be able to: * pay teachers a fair wage * hire enough teachers, assistants, and admins so that teachers don't have to work at least another half a workday 'off the books' * fund…

> fund schools well enough that teachers don't have to pay out of pocket for basic supplies like chalk and paper

You mean funding the vacation plans of all the administration ?

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#770

Post by missedthecue »

radiojasper wrote: post #460

Pay them more. Then while you're at it, pay police more as well. The two pillars that should keep our systems together are disgustingly underpaid... High School Teachers earned an average salary of $67,340 in 2020. Comparable jobs earned the following average salary in 2020: Elementary School Teachers made $65,420, Middle School Teachers made $64,990, School Counselors made $62,320, and Sports Coaches made $47,100. T…

What's the minimum offer it would take for you to quit your job and go be a middle school teacher right now?
Post reply on HN