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Elon’s Out

bloomberg.com

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Re: Elon’s Out

#761

Post by kolinko »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #139
kolinko wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who grew up in a communist country with literally zero rich prople - it’s not about wealth, it’s about power and influence. We’ve had just as many, if not way more, people above law as in capitalist countries.

Putin is rumored to be the richest person in the world, but of course you’ll never see him listed on Forbes because he hides it. https://fortune.com/2022/03/02/vladimir-putin-net-worth-2022...

Putin doesn’t live in a communist country.

During communism dignitaries didn’t have much money-wealth, or even true material wealth. But they were powerful nevertheless.

Re: Elon’s Out

#762

Post by maxbond »

loceng wrote: post #759
maxbond wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "Musk cultists are the worst" was out of line. Otherwise what GP said was correct. If it helps, I don't think you're a cultist, I'm sure you aren't a stupid person either, but you have this totally backwards. I don't presume to know how that happened, other than that it's something that happens to everyone from time to time, myself included. This is a sincere, no judgement invitation to reconsider your positio…

"People who care about free speech don't respond to criticism with left-field accusations - that's a diversionary tactic. People who make serious buyout offers aren't trying to insert weed jokes in there." You didn't actually backup much of anything you forward as argument points. The gish gallop you point to is his trolling, having fun - but that doesn't mean he's not serious or genuine otherwise. I doubt you've act…

> You didn't actually backup much of anything you forward as argument points.

I assumed that, being someone familiar with Musk, you'd be aware of his promises around FSD etc. Most of my post is interpretation of his actions, rather than claims. I can't really "substantiate" my interpretation, I am the source there. So I'm not entirely sure what you're asking me to do here; I am happy to provide more sources, I just don't really know what you're asking.

The gish gallop is not limited to trolling. Having Tesla, SpaceX, and Neuralink is part of it. Making an offer to buy Twitter is part of it - regardless of how trollish it is, signing a deal to buy a company is not "merely trolling", some rude but inconsequential behavior. It's not that the gish gallop is a thin coating of candy over a yummy chocolate core of great ideas. There's no substance there.

When I first heard about Musk I thought he was pretty cool and that he was making important things happen. But when I learned more about him, and started to scrutinize his actions, it became apparent that none of what he says means anything, and everything he does serves to enhance his power and prestige rather than building a future for humanity.

My opinion is a considered one. I don't think there's anything else I need to say on that matter.

Re: Elon’s Out

#763

Post by maxbond »

maxbond wrote: post #756
snovv_crash wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about enemies or anything else. It's about what used to be a technical news site using emotive language to describe people. News should be impartial, but I see a significant amount of opinion-building. Musk has always been Steve Jobs -ish. He focused on rockets and electric cars instead of shiny things that go in your desk or pocket or wrist though, and against all odds succeeded where many others have fai…

This is goalpost moving. We weren't discussing the journalistic integrity of Ars Technia, we were discussing whether or not Musk's enemies are real or imagined. I didn't identify Ars as an enemy, I asked who these enemies were, and it was you who suggested it. He is not pushing humanity forward and certainly isn't getting people to pull in the same direction. If you disagree, I would be curious to hear how Neuralink…

CORRECTION: I misspoke, I meant to say there were sexual _harassment_ allegations, NOT assault. I can't edit this comment anymore, but I'll email the HN admins to see if they'll fix it (ETA dang did). I apologize.

Re: Elon’s Out

#764

Post by kortilla »

throwaway09223 wrote: post #466
kortilla wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX is well known to have a bunch of investors. Put a little effort in before explicitly calling out that the government could seize rockets. It’s as silly as saying they could start just taking Model 3s from the Tesla factory to get their money back.

I think you're misunderstanding. It's absolutely possible to seize rockets, or model 3s, etc. That part isn't silly at all. The only question is regarding which entity is liable. If a judgement were entered against SpaceX, for example, then absolutely rockets and real property owned by SpaceX can be directly seized. Without looking, I'm certain there are at least a few companies owned by Musk which could have their a…

We’re talking about Elon, not spacex. I don’t get how you’re confusing the two so easily. You claimed they can seize spacex property for Elon debt, which is 100% unadulterated bullshit.

Re: Elon’s Out

#766

Post by snovv_crash »

maxbond wrote: post #760
snovv_crash wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You severely underestimate his impact on the success of both Tesla and SpaceX, it extends beyond just a 'getting funding and charming people' perspective. Ask Bezos about combustion instabilities in turbopumps and he isn't going to give you a 20 minute lecture on the pros and cons of gas bearings and alloy design. Toyota, the world's largest auto manufacturer, is still avoiding making an electric vehicle. Musk is ecc…

So Musk's enemies are Ars Technia. Then it wasn't about enemies. And now Musk's enemies are so plentiful and powerful, that I'm not even allowed an opinion, I'm just a dupe. Musk's reputation was killed by Musk, and it was because he showed the world who he was. I realized his words were nonsense and formed an opinion based on his actions. You should consider doing the same. As a final note, I think you should consid…

Yes, the world has nuance. There aren't good guys and bad guys, everyone is mostly in it for themselves. It's all a big, ever-changing war for resources, all the way up from bacteria to us who think we're somehow above it all. Everyone is allowed their opinion, and nobody has to agree with it.

It isn't a conspiracy that rich people control the media - this was a big part of people's initial objection to his purchase of Twitter, wasn't it? Why would it be in any way controversial that other rich people don't like him and are trying to undercut him? Isn't this even what you're doing, on a small scale?

I absolutely understand people don't like him - I don't particularly like him easier, but I am impressed by the things he's managed to achieve. I don't need to like him as a person to recognize that he's done impressive things. And I don't think either of us are qualified to be making pre-judgements on whether the Twitter contract is Musk's Spruce Goose or not.

Re: Elon’s Out

#767

Post by davidguetta »

petilon wrote: post #71

This article says Musk agreed to buy Twitter mostly as a joke. I think there's a far better explanation. This wasn't a joke for Musk because after agreeing to buy Twitter he proceeded to sell billions of dollars' worth of TSLA stock, supposedly to finance the purchase. Even for the richest man in the world that's not a joke. I think a better explanation is that Musk offered to buy Twitter as a cover for selling billi…

"Musk pretended that TSLA valuation is reasonable."

Excuse me what ? He alwways said it was overvalued. I dont think anyone would have bat an eye if he had sold for no reason

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