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Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, interesting, because I don't force myself to use Firefox. I use it because it's just plain better than Chrome, in that I can configure it just the way I want.

I'm curious what OS you're running. For me, on macOS Firefox performs the best out of all browsers I've tried, but on Linux it feels a bit sluggish.

I'm on Arch Linux.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#762
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are answering the question "how can Mozilla make more money", but that wasn't what was asked. Mozilla as a whole is profitable already, and revenues have been growing close to 100% year over year. As a company they are in great health. Except that's not what users care about when picking a browser. Google has too much money, tech, marketing and too big an existing user and device base to make any kind of direct c…

I know many people who used to use Firefox and moved on to Brave. Brave has a mission that is easier to get behind and till it’s unclear what Firefox is trying to be.

Brave is led by Brendan Eich, you know who.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#763
post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a weird type of logic going on where almost everyone who would be willing to do it for almost free is probably not qualified for the job. Would you really stake the future of your foundation on someone who still needs to build their resume?

Japanese CEO salaries are famously very low. The Toyota CEO makes about USD 3.5m. There are other C levels that make 3 times what the Toyota CEO earns in direct compensation. Japanese CEO salaries in general seem to be below USD1m on average.

Those numbers seem so much saner than the US.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would call it usable, but not "very usable". For normal people, Chrome(ium) UX is better. I can't imagine why you would say this. Could you point out some concrete examples of better UX?

The hamburger menu, for one. It's extremely unintuitive. Not the fact that it uses a hamburger icon, but that even simple things like accessing the full list of my bookmarks involve multiple clicks. If you know the keyboard shortcuts then it's not a problem, but I want common UI items to be accessible from the UI. Besides that, the UI is just sluggish a lot of the time. It feels that Chrome(ium) has a far better late…

But isn't accessing bookmarks exactly the same in Chrome(ium)?

Firefox: 1. Hamburger menu > 2. Bookmarks > 3. Manage bookmarks Chrome(ium): 1. Three-dot menu > 2. Bookmarks > 3. Bookmark manager

In both cases you get a list of bookmarks on step 2 and you get a full, searchable, editable view in step 3. The global shortcut for the third step is the same in both (ctrl + shift + o).

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#765
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a regular end user why do I care about what Mozilla's mission is? Apple makes shiny devices, Google gives me great free services, and in return I use their (perfectly great) browsers. What is one single reason to use Firefox? As long as these large companies continue to put effort into their browsers (which Microsoft didn't do with IE), users are simply never going to switch, the same way no one is using desktop L…

>What is one single reason to use Firefox? I want to use a browser that does not sabotage my ability to make it work how I want in order to protect the main business of its parent corporation. Not a snazzy headline I know.

And IMO this is where Firefox is getting worse.

Firefox used to be much less user-hostile. Now it draws too much attention to itself, like it's trying to be a lifestyle brand.

Using Firefox feels like walking through a busy shopping mall, and I worry that the folks making Firefox don't know any other way that life can be.

Post-update pages (if they must exist in the first place) should look like:

> You're using the latest version of Firefox! (Need a VPN? Try ours!)

> You're using the latest version of Firefox! (Discover the best of the web with Pocket from Firefox)

…but instead it feels more like:

> YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED SIGNING IN TO POCKET YET! SIGN IN NOW! (btw firefox updated)

> Buy our VPN Buy our VPN Buy our VPN Buy our VPN Buy our VPN (btw firefox updated)

I wish Firefox would focus on being a useful tool (like the rest of the software I use). Compare Firefox's first-run experience with that of GNOME Web: Firefox is obnoxious; GNOME Web just gets out of the way.

I believe in Mozilla's mission circa 2004, but I'm not convinced that Firefox does any more.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

"a fish rots from the head"

Btw my reply was not to make fun of you, but it remembered me of some saying that my grandpa used to tell ^^

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real (and often downvoted) answer is that Mozilla compromised on their core values. A "death by a thousand cuts", as it were. I expect it's downvoted because it's laughable. 99% of browser users don't give a shit about those things. If a poll were to be taken of the HN users who switched to Chrome, I doubt even a quarter would cite that as the reason. It was indeed a death by a thousand cuts, but the thousand c…

Agreed, these are the macro-level events that really drove user adoption. The narrative (especially the Mr. Robot thing!) are totally out of proportion to their actual impact on user adoption and aren't the all-or-nothing tests of credibility or integrity that people are suggesting they are.

— but they are symptomatic. The Mozilla of 2004 wouldn't even think of doing user-hostile stuff like that, because they were trying to make a useful tool rather than a lifestyle brand.

Those things will have disillusioned people who used Firefox because their goals were aligned. I agree that Google being Google will have lost people who used Firefox simply because it was a good tool.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arrogance is hard to believe. > In 2018 she received a total of $2,458,350 in compensation from Mozilla, which represents a 400% payrise since 2008. On the same period, Firefox marketshare was down 85%. When asked about her salary she stated "I learned that my pay was about an 80% discount to market. Meaning that competitive roles elsewhere were paying about 5 times as much. That's too big a discount to ask peopl…

omg, i am considering deleting firefox now. terrible.

Sounds stupid, you don't pay her salary by using firefox.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#769
post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arrogance is hard to believe. > In 2018 she received a total of $2,458,350 in compensation from Mozilla, which represents a 400% payrise since 2008. On the same period, Firefox marketshare was down 85%. When asked about her salary she stated "I learned that my pay was about an 80% discount to market. Meaning that competitive roles elsewhere were paying about 5 times as much. That's too big a discount to ask peopl…

Her logic assumes that another company would actually pay her that much. Given how disastrous her tenure has been to Firefox's user base, I'm skeptical that another company would even want her as CEO, let alone pay her this much.

There's supply and demand here.

Any replacement CEO is going to be thinking, I'm trying to beat Google, Apple and Microsoft on a tiny budget and if I dont succeed people will blame me personally for it all, complain about me online and claim that no one else should employ me. That's a gamble for anyone coming in who has better options and so attacks on the CEO for being a failure only help to create a moat and increase her bargaining power.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What is one single reason to use Firefox? I want to use a browser that does not sabotage my ability to make it work how I want in order to protect the main business of its parent corporation. Not a snazzy headline I know.

And IMO this is where Firefox is getting worse. Firefox used to be much less user-hostile. Now it draws too much attention to itself, like it's trying to be a lifestyle brand. Using Firefox feels like walking through a busy shopping mall, and I worry that the folks making Firefox don't know any other way that life can be. Post-update pages (if they must exist in the first place) should look like: > You're using the l…

Did you actually took the time to setup firefox to your liking once? From the above post it looks like you didn't.

Pocket is pretty much invisible, especially if you remove the button from the toolbar. The only time I see mentions of the mozilla VPN is when I go to the configuration of an existing container and I see the option to integrate it to mozilla VPN.

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