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President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

purdueexponent.org

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Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#761

Post by Nevermark »

criddell wrote: post #566
Nevermark wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is better they didn't. Students are not being (considered for) expelled for their views of the Tiananmen Massacre one way or another. Taking any stance on that, in this context, would muddy those waters and make Prudue look like it was doing a political purge. The problem that produced the statement was harassment. Not political views.

Is saying the Tiananmen Massacre happened a political view?

Something being a political view doesn't mean its not verifiable fact.

A debate has different facets - political or not political - fact or not fact - harassment or not harassment.

In this case the problem that needed to be addressed by Purdue was the harassment.

Students debating different understandings of Tiananmen Square (regardless of either sides merits) was not the issue that required intervention by university leadership.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#762

Post by drak0n1c »

iszomer wrote: post #744
BoxOfRain wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beautifully put, what an excellent way to demonstrate what seperates the authoritarian mindset from the liberal mindset.

What a strange parallel to draw when it comes to the actions of the current Democrats and Republicans in our House and Senate along with the current presidency and adminstration.

It's pretty clear that in the context of the comment the usage of small-l liberal was referring to the classical ideal, not the homonym label misused in contemporary American politics.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#763

Post by rackjack »

frakkingcylons wrote: post #736
vmception wrote: post #190

Getting the actual opinion of anyone in China (or Hong Kong if you’re a worker and well integrated) is very difficult. There is a lot of reading between the lines necessary because of the network of reporting from other Chinese that’s worldwide. Note: those actual opinions are not necessarily “life is baaaad what a niiightmare”, they can be quite nuanced just like anywhere else. Something as simple as “I kind of like…

I’ve had regular contact with my relatives in FJ during the pandemic and there’s no lack of complaints. So I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Most Americans who do not have relatives in China think it is almost literally 1984.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#764

Post by rackjack »

ddoolin wrote: post #752
rackjack wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese government has seeped its way into nearly every facet of American life. This is most visible in Disney movies (see: the Mulan and Lion King remakes) but it is happening to many companies and universities where they use our own greed against us. I hope America will wake up and realize we have fighting a hidden war, but we are so divided I doubt we'll notice until we've lost, if we notice at all.

On the surface, this seems like FUD or at least exaggerated. Anecdotally, Americans across the spectrum are at least weary of China if not openly hostile. China does have a lot of corporate influence at the upper levels and corporations do pull many of the levers of government here, but on an individual level, I don't think it's that's dramatic. Although this topic has been sensationalized a lot, personally I don't t…

That's fair, I'm just concerned about Chinese global economic dominance.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#765

Post by dang »

toss1 wrote: post #700
oceanghost wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would China tolerate US "students" on their land spying, attempting to project US power, or abusing others on their land? China is the worlds weird abusive ex-boyfriend.

yup, abusive, and stalking. Including on HN - every single HN post that opposed CCP actions gets resistance from the handful of guaranteed downvotes to verbose advocacy. Russia has been the undisputed world champion of dezinformatsyia for over a century, but it looks like CCP is coming for their title , especially with their push into the US academic-military realm (and they are shameless about copying US tech, surpr…

> every single HN post that opposed CCP actions gets resistance from the handful of guaranteed downvotes to verbose advocacy

That is so extremely far from the case that I think it may be a classic example of the notice-dislike bias (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...).

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#766

Post by Nevermark »

merpnderp wrote: post #717
criddell wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is saying the Tiananmen Massacre happened a political view?

I would think that a government machining gunning down peacefully assembled civilians and then running over the bodies with tanks, then shooting any doctors who attempted to help the wounded, wouldn't be politicized. That we can all agree it is deeply and unquestionably evil.

Yes, it would be very nice if we could all understand important things without misunderstandings based on personal biases or misinformation.

In the meantime, debating without harassing each other is the best way forward.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#767

Post by bostonsre »

flohofwoe wrote: post #222
bostonsre wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know of any examples of descent against the government that ended well for those that spoke up? I highly doubt the people are sheep and I'm pretty positive I would act in the same exact way and keep my mouth shut in order to live my life if I was living in a country with an oppressive government.

The collapse of the Eastern European socialist countries 30 years ago is an excellent example. But it only works when the general public had suffered enough and isn't willing to support the regime anymore. And the economic situation needs to get worse for one or two generations, it won't happen overnight and in a working economy. A few dissidents "speaking up" to incite change is a romantic idea, but it's not enough.

Yea, I meant in China but those examples you provided definitely illustrate how unlikely it will be to happen in China. It's pretty sad and I can't imagine having such a bleak future, especially for those that are more oppressed than others over there.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#768

Post by BobbyJo »

bllguo wrote: post #728
coupdejarnac wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're over-literally interpreting what above poster said. Above poster probably doesn't speak Mandarin so their retelling might be missing some nuance.

Quoted post unavailable.

It's not glossing over, it's a rebuttal.

> Western understanding of the rest of the world is severely lacking

I would wager that Western countries, on average, have a better view of the world than non-Western countries, if for no other reason than the privileges their wealth and liberalism entail. Do you think the average Russian, African, South American, Chinese, (Yes, I'm aware some of that list is continents, and some is countries) etc. has access to a greater wealth of information and experience with regard to the Rest of the world?

Keep in mind I'm not saying this as a point of superiority or anything, just pointing out your lack of a well-grounded point.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#769

Post by Nevermark »

tshaddox wrote: post #649
Nevermark wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by 'undemocratic' you mean autocratic, it isn't proponents of democracy that are stripping them of agency. It is their form of government. However, understanding the pro's and con's of any type of government, including autocracies, is a worthy pursuit. We can learn something from anyone.

> If by 'undemocratic' you mean autocratic, it isn't proponents of democracy that are stripping them of agency. It is their form of government. But you would need to show that they are actually being stripped of their agency. You can't just say "I declare that their government doesn't represent their preferences, and when they say that the government actually does represent their preferences, that's because they can'…

If a government severely punishes debate about its behavior or views it wants accepted and unchallenged, or has a system in place to eliminate information in the public sphere that it does not want you to encounter, through technology and overwhelming pressure on organizations and individuals, ...

... that's all you need to know. That is a situation designed precisely to stay in power despite not responding to a freely informed public's preferences.

If an autocratic leader actually asked its citizens for their preferences on whether the autocrat should stay in power, and abided by the result - it would not be an autocracy.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#770

Post by avgcorrection »

ddoolin wrote: post #755
avgcorrection wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What's your point? That doesn't exclude US Americans from offering criticism. We are not all one entity, there's ~300M of us. Many of us had nothing to do with Vietnam and I can damn near guarantee wouldn't repeat that decision today.

> That doesn't exclude US Americans from offering criticism.

I wasn’t replying to the criticism. I was replying to the comparison to the “liberal mindset”.

If liberal democracies hadn’t invaded countries in order to stop the spread of ideas then the comment would have been fine.

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