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“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#761

Post by rndgermandude »

emdowling wrote: post #177
kieloo wrote: post #18

Same thing with The Guardian. Subscribed online and was then told I can’t cancel via email and have to endure a pushy sales call if I want to cancel. Similar experience with The Economist except it was via live chat instead. These experiences honestly make me want to never subscribe to a newspaper again.

Having dealt with The Guardian and others like them to cancel, I say "I will not explain why I wish to cancel nor will I reconsider my decision. Please cancel my account. My account number is x, my email is y and my address is z." I usually have to repeat it 3-4 times before they finally give in and do it.

Very prisoner-of-war-esque. I might try that if I ever get into such a subscription trap. I am just not sure if I could maintain my composure enough to keep saying "please".

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#763

Post by jonny_eh »

idworks1 wrote: post #756

Anecdata (only because I don't have access to the data anymore). Customer satisfaction is so much higher when they get a one click unsubscribe. In fact, when the friction is so low, the customer is likely to start the subscription back. I say this as someone who worked in customer service automation. The worst customer satisfaction score with lowest rate of re-subscription is from companies that make it hell to unsub…

> The worst customer satisfaction score with least lowest rate of re-subscription is from companies that make it hell to unsubscribe.

Does "least lowest" mean highest? Or did you mean "least/lowest"?

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#764

Post by thayne »

user3939382 wrote: post #328
koheripbal wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some might try that but one call with the FTC legal team will make any company stop that shit immediately. You don't piss off gov't regulators

> You don't piss off gov't regulators Yep. If you deal with them you learn quickly that all that “splitting hairs” stuff you see in Hollywood dramas buys you nothing. For a lot of administrative compliance, with the state or Feds, they are judge jury and executioner and the rules are what they say they are. Unless you have a lot of money and influence don’t play games with them.

> Unless you have a lot of money and influence don’t play games with them.

There are a fair number of companies that do these dark patterns that have a lot of money and influence though.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#765

Post by idworks1 »

jonny_eh wrote: post #763
idworks1 wrote: post #756

Anecdata (only because I don't have access to the data anymore). Customer satisfaction is so much higher when they get a one click unsubscribe. In fact, when the friction is so low, the customer is likely to start the subscription back. I say this as someone who worked in customer service automation. The worst customer satisfaction score with lowest rate of re-subscription is from companies that make it hell to unsub…

> The worst customer satisfaction score with least lowest rate of re-subscription is from companies that make it hell to unsubscribe. Does "least lowest" mean highest? Or did you mean "least/lowest"?

oops, that was a typo. Fixed it.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#766

Post by smilespray »

PaulHoule wrote: post #750
kelp wrote: post #704

California SB-313 ( https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm... ) was passed in 2018 and has this requirement: "... a consumer who accepts an automatic renewal or continuous service offer online shall be allowed to terminate the automatic renewal or continuous service exclusively online, which may include a termination email formatted and provided by the business that a consumer can send to the bu…

We talk about UI dark patterns but the people who try to retain you are trained in conversational dark patterns. If anything these are deadlier in retention then in the first sale. I'm awful at sales but I like to drink with salespeople in hotel bars and otherwise pick their brains and I have had news paper ad and radio commercial salespeople share their retention playbooks with me. (e.g. "Don't you know your custome…

"Nobody ever got fired for choosing IBM..."

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#767

Post by smilespray »

LanceH wrote: post #453
criddell wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past when I've had to deal with a retention person and they ask why I'm leaving, I usually just say personal reasons . I've had pretty good luck with that.

In the good old days of paper delivery I used, "I'm moving to Zimbabwe." They never had a checkbox for Zimbabwe and the call ended there. Now, I guess they'll just pitch the online edition. Maybe I'll try, "I'm about to winter over in Antarctica and won't have the internet bandwidth for your paper. Do you guys deliver there?"

Tough luck, they've got decent semi-decent bandwidth down there these days.

Perhaps Mars?

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#768

Post by [deleted] »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #710
_2d30 wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Customer choice and experience should almost always trump “increased costs”. No it shouldn't and that should be obvious. > Plus, this ignores practically the entirety of the rest of their comment, where they explain that the extreme openness just means that companies make it absurdly easy to do so they explicitly don’t have to deal with all that. Yes, this is good, but the FTC's ruling does this as well so it's bet…

> No it shouldn't and that should be obvious. Explain why that should be obvious. If you’re building a service for a customer, said customer should be your top priority.

[deleted]

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#769

Post by _2d30 »

dguest wrote: post #681
_2d30 wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Otherwise, if the regulation merely prescribes that there has to be a button, there is little consequence if the button doesn't work, This is a ridiculous strawman. The Swedish model also makes it such that sufficiently motivated ass holes can make a company's life very difficult. Much better to have sensible legislation like the FTC's where your mode of unsubbing is equivalent to your mode of subbing. Really, shoc…

I don't think most companies are maliciously breaking unsubscribe buttons, but there are a lot of websites that don't work on some browsers, are badly maintained to the point of being unusable, are confusing, or simply don't work because the people that maintain them aren't professional web designers. When your website is broken and you continue to charge me money, I don't think the onus on me to report the broken we…

And how would this case work against you in the FTC’s legislation? Seems pretty clear that if it doesn’t work to unsubscribe but it would work to subscribe then it’s against the ruling.

If the website can’t actually add subscriptions then good luck to that company surviving!

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#770

Post by _2d30 »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #710
_2d30 wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Customer choice and experience should almost always trump “increased costs”. No it shouldn't and that should be obvious. > Plus, this ignores practically the entirety of the rest of their comment, where they explain that the extreme openness just means that companies make it absurdly easy to do so they explicitly don’t have to deal with all that. Yes, this is good, but the FTC's ruling does this as well so it's bet…

> No it shouldn't and that should be obvious. Explain why that should be obvious. If you’re building a service for a customer, said customer should be your top priority.

The number of things that could increase the costs of providing a service beyond willingness to pay for the service is essentially unbounded.
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