Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#761

Post by ixacto » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:12 AM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #486

philwelch wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries. From your link we see Brazil at 27, Mexico at 29, Argentina at 5, Uruguay at 12, Greenland at 5, Panama at 9, and Costa Rica at 11. Canada is the biggest outlier, but the US still has less homicide than even relatively nice New World countries. If you’re going to tout France’s low homicide rate of 1.2, I’d invite you to observe that Japan’s homicide rate i…

I winced when you started the comparison with Brazil and Mexico. Those countries may be New World, but anybody who's visited Mexico knows not to go random places alone. In other words, if Brazil and Mexico are our points of comparison, we're... not in a situation I'd want to be in, to put it diplomatically. Reddit's running joke is that every gunfight happened in Brazil. In fact, I often wonder if most of the gunfigh…

All that gun control in Mexico is working just great with its low murder rate…oh wait.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#762

Post by ctdonath » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:13 AM UTC

klyrs wrote: post #408

KorematsuFredt wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PS: I am strong supporter of Gun rights and proud gun owner. I fully agree with anti-gun crowd that having vast majority of guns in hands of citizens (legally or illegally) leads to more deaths. USA's comparison with Angola is actually more serious than the numbers tell you because you need to realize that USA has far better medical response and doctors trained to handle gunshot wounds. So to truly compare Angola and…

> After 2nd ammendment you will be seeing "commons sense rules for free speech" like we have seen in UK, Canada and Australia. This is extremely shaky reasoning. You've done nothing to prove that the 2nd amendment is actually protecting these rights, only mentioned the existence of two facts and asserted a causative relationship between them. Have there been attempts to introduce censorship in the US that have been d…

Have there been attempts to introduce censorship in the US that have been defeated by armed activists?

No, because there _are_ armed activists.

Were there violent uprisings against censorship in the UK, Canada, or Australia that failed due to a lack of access to arms?

See Hong Kong of late. Many banners seen during free-speech protests there lamented their lack of a "2nd Amendment".

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#763

Post by _-david-_ » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:13 AM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #274

bm3719 wrote: post #106

Excellent. There's no reason defensive gun buyers should be demographically different from the general population. It's understandable that gun sales for hunting or other activities might show differences, but we all have the same personal security needs. Side note: I'm one of the people here with a large collection of firearms. One thing to realize when you see the statistic that the US has more firearms than people…

For decades I have lived deep in the heart of some of the densest cities in the country (SF and NYC). These are places with serious and obvious crime problems that I have seen up close and personal, day in and day out. Yet to me, despite these experiences, the entire concept of "personal security needs" involving firearms is absolutely absurd. It sounds like a Monty Python sketch. Silly to the point of absurdity. But…

>Even though they mostly live in vastly, vastly safer zip codes.

While rural places are safer, there are threats like bears, wolves and other wild animals.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#764

Post by kelnos » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:14 AM UTC

ryandvm wrote: post #69

sharklazer wrote: post #53

Everyone should own a gun, and most more than 1. If we were to maintain public education (which... just no, please) gun education should be standard.

Strange take. In 40+ years, I've never needed a gun to defend myself. Nor do I even _know anyone_ that needed to use a gun to lawfully defend themselves. So why should we all have something that A) the lawful uses of such are exceedingly rare, and B) ends up involved in a lot of unlawful or unintentional killings.

In my 40 years, there was exactly one time I needed to defend myself, and a gun probably would have made the situation worse. I would have had too little time to draw it, and likely it would have been wrestled away from me and used against me. The people who attacked me had no weapons (or at least none they felt they needed to show me), so a gun would have escalated things.

I walked away from that with a black eye and stolen phone and laptop, but if a gun had been in play I might not have walked away at all.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#765

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:15 AM UTC

qeternity wrote: post #620

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France is quite heterogenous. The "homogeneous = less crime" argument is a bit xenophobic/racist at best, and not quite true. Societies with an impoverished underclass is what causes higher crime rates, regardless of whether or not the underclass is mainly comprised of ethnic minorities. France (heterogenous) and Japan (homogenous) take better care of their poor than the US (heterogenous) and Guatemala (homogenous),…

> France is quite heterogenous. Paris, yes. France, no. France as a whole is very homogenous.

Immigrant populations in both France and the United States are in the mid-teens, percentage-wise. [1]

Japan's immigrant population stands at 2.0%, and Guatamala's is 0.5%.

I'm aware that there are other measures of diversity, but many of the comments here were mentioning the United States's border with Mexico specifically as a reason for its high murder rate, which doesn't seem to hold up once you dig into the numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d...

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#766

Post by rdevsrex » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:15 AM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #96

chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

I’m sure every woman in Kabul wished they had a handgun or two.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#767

Post by smnrchrds » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:16 AM UTC

betwixthewires wrote: post #712

smnrchrds wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What about Greenland? It's not a country and it has a very low population (less than 60k). Small regions make bad statistical samples.

OK, how about Argentina?

What about Canada, Australia, and New Zealand?

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#768

Post by SuoDuanDao » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #663

philwelch wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The more rational 'New World' comparisons would be Canada, Australia and New Zealand, and guess what: very low murder, very low rates of gun ownership. Who could have imagined that British colonies who didn’t violently overthrow the British colonial government would end up being less violent overall? Also, who would have guessed that former British colonies that didn’t have millions of African slaves shipped in for…

The US has the gun fetish because it has a perpetual racialized underclass, among other reasons. You're right the violence is tied to its history. But so are the guns. You cannot separate the two. As others have pointed out; personal firearms are pretty useless as a vehicle for resisting state oppression and tyranny. But they're useful for stopping slave revolts or, more contemporarily, guarding your McMansion. The p…

It's common knowledge that a lot of early gun control legislation was passed to prevent ethnic groups like the black panthers from gaining equal footing with groups who would harass them. Much safer to lynch an unarmed man after all. Claiming to be motivated by the plight of poor minorities given that history seems in remarkably poor taste.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#769

Post by ashtonkem » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

_carbyau_ wrote: post #744

ashtonkem wrote: post #625

The personal safety issue is being covered a lot here, but I think some people are missing something else; guns are a lot of fun. In an era where bars and movie theaters were closed due to pandemic, you could safety go to an outside range and ring steel instead. This is particularly relevant if you consider the ongoing shortage in 22lr, a cartridge which is woefully underpowered for self defense, but ideal for killin…

I largely agree with your comment. I am curious about the 22lr being "woefully underpowered for self defense" bit though. I mean, it will put holes into peoples bodies. And I thought the idea was self defense and keeping peoples heads down/awayFromYou. I know it won't put big holes in doors/tables etc. I guess I haven't really considered what the real requirements are for self defense in a country where so many peopl…

The standard of a defensive caliber is that it needs to be capable of immediately halting an attacker with the kinds of shots a scared defendant can pull off[0]. Not killing them immediately or eventually, but halting the attack. Plenty of gun shot wounds are capable of killing eventually even if they’re not immediately disabling, and it does you no good if your assailant eventually bleeds to death after they’ve finished stabbing you.

The issue is that halting an attack occurs because of hydrostatic shock, which is a product of a bullets velocity and expansion. 22lr is capable of causing blood loss, which can eventually lead to death, but it does not deliver enough energy to reliable render an attacker incapable of continuing the fight if they’re sufficiently motivated. Assuming that the assailant isn’t immediately scared off by the brandishing or noise of a firearm, which is often the case, 22lr requires extremely good shot placement and volume to reliably end a fight, which makes it a poor choice all around.

Generally for modern firearms the minimum is either 380acp or 9mm, depending on who you ask. The only advantage that 380 has is that some 380 guns are easier to manipulate for those with weak or small hands, otherwise 9mm is generally the winner here in terms of firearm choices, ammunition availability, and terminal ballistics.

For comparison, here are the levels of energy for 3 cartridges. Energy isn’t the be all end all of terminal ballistics, bullet construction[1] and expansion matters, but it’s illustrative. The ranges quoted are necessary due to different bullet weights and pressure loading.

22lr: 130-200fpe

380ACP: 210-330fpe

9mm: 355-500fpe

0 - Any caliber is capable of killing and/or disabling with luck or extremely good shot placement, this is why even 22lr cannot be treated as a toy. But people shooting defensively do not make record shots generally, and you have to accommodate for the fear and adrenaline of a defensive encounter.

1 - The availability of quality defensive ammunition is another big factor. Defensive ammunition has gotten really good over the past half century, and most of these improvements have completely bypassed 22lr.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#770

Post by notacoward » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:19 AM UTC

glangdale wrote: post #687

greenie_beans wrote: post #160

i live in the american south, where everybody owns guns. i own a gun for hunting. but for self defense, i have pepper spray and bear spray instead of guns because i don't want to kill somebody regardless of their intentions. i'd be curious to see the stats of self-defense/firearms, because it seems like self-defense gun owners are LARPing over imagined intruder situations. they're definitely not about to take up arms…

The thing I always find astonishing about the LARPing element of "taking up arms against the state" is how one-sidedly political it is. An authoritarian right-wing state - say, an alternate world where Trump had somehow seized power and suspended democracy - would find large numbers of American gun owners who would be very happy about this and serve as a pro-government paramilitary (coordinating the police/military a…

Exactly. Nothing enables a tyrant like a sympathetic mob that is more heavily armed than those who would fight for freedom. Historically, would-be tyrants tend to make sure their sympathizers are well armed more than to disarm anyone. The idea of someone with MAGA and Punisher stickers on their pickup using their guns to oppose tyranny is laughable. No, they'll be first in line to trade in their fake military insignia for the real version.