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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#761

Post by megous »

There are people with long term issues starting right after vaccination. Not safety issues, which everyone and their dog studies, just multi-month constant pain that will not kill you but just disables you from your normal life for months, that is not solvable by regular NSAIDs, as usual, and that you'll get no compensation for from anyone.

I'm just interested in how common this is after vaccination, and perhaps when may this end, so I again spent a few hours yesterday to try to find some significant (N > 5000, preferably more) independent prospective studies of "mild" side effects like these of this vaccine.

So much vaccination going on, so why not just give every 5th person vaccinated in some large center a link and a code to enter observed side effects after 1 day, 3 days, week, and a month, and then maybe 3 months after into some website. Maybe ask for a phone number and call them to ask, if they don't fill the form in time. Even such a stupid study design would satisfy me.

No such thing on google scholar.

There are barely any studies that track side effects over time. It's almost all just binary X,Y,Z side effects after vaccine - yes/no. All studies I could find are The small amount of studies that actually tracked side effects over time, just track for 7 days and end with 4% people still having side effects after a week. One Czech study I found tracked side effects for a month! With 2% having still issues after a month. Well, good! No, not really, NAlso the fucking irony of search returning about 5-10x more so called "hesitancy" studies per a side effect survey, despite me not search for it.

I'm fully vaccinated, and there's no shortage of studies about efficacy, so no problem there. But people that proclaim how well the side effects are studied, because of how many millions of people were already vaccinated just sound ridiculous to me now. Where are all the actual studies?

From what can be found it just seems that very little fuck is given about serious study of so called "mild" side effects, and some guidance given on how to mitigate them, based on results.

("no compensation for from anyone" is because my country actually passed a law that allows for compensation for covid vaccine gone wrong; but with no proof of some statistical relationship, this was just another bullshit anti-hesitancy stunt from the government, and will be of no real help to the affected)

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#762

Post by s0rce »

xiphias2 wrote: post #686
appleflaxen wrote: post #166

Any physician may prescribe any FDA-approved medication outside the scope of the label if it's indicated in their medical judgment. That means that it may be prescribed to individuals <18 in some circumstances, and that it's legal to do so (explicit emergency authorization notwithstanding).

Can I now travel to the US and pay for one if I want as a non-US resident? So far that was impossible.

Undocumented people have been able to get the vaccine in California without paying so you can get it and don't need to pay.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#763

Post by ldehaan »

kcb wrote: post #695
ldehaan wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy far out options on antiviral companies? Too late bro, the rate of climb is way down over the past 3 scare runs, which really pumped the price it was great, plus all the obvious drops where you could have made a decent amount on short calls after each news segment about everything opening up :D hahaha I mean seriously dude, you wish you bought in. Also anecdotes are all there is right now, that's society right now…

Wow you are smart and good at money. Good Job!

Thanks! That's kinda what I was going for, glad it landed. So succinct though, who's the wordsmith now eh? Anyways, Covid == Trump

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#764

Post by epgui »

015a wrote: post #727
kristjansson wrote: post #709

All of these comments following the pattern "I'm vaccinated but [insert vaccine hesitancy content here]" sound quite a lot like the "I'm a democrat but [insert pro-trump content]" comments that abounded in the last cycle. I don't know what to make of it. Is this a rhetorical strategy that really works? A tic of people experiencing cognitive dissonance?

Its totally healthy to both believe that the vaccine makes sense for you, and still respect, love, include, and accomodate people who decide it isn't right for them. We're all different, and the world is very complicated; that's what makes life so awesome.

Scientific matter: Vaccines save lives, protect people around you and improve your personal odds as well. (I am a biochemist)

Political matter: What is the extent to which we want to allow people to make their own decisions when these decisions have an impact on the well-being of others?

Whatever your answer to the second question is (an exercise which I leave to the reader) is going to have an impact on the degree of inclusion and on the degree of accommodation that should be extended to people who choose not to vaccinate. Respect and love is possible and encouraged in all cases.

As a bonus, for further consideration...

Ethical matter: What is the moral value of an ill-informed decision, and is the moral value of an ill-informed decision sufficient to support the principle of individual autonomy?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#765

Post by handoflixue »

criticaltinker wrote: post #704
dhanvanthri wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parachutes have not been subjected to rigorous evaluation by using randomized controlled trials. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300808/ :D

Had to up-vote because this is hilarious, thanks for sharing. As a critique of evidence based medicine they've clearly demonstrated their point, but it's obviously philosophical and the tradeoffs of practical medical interventions are no where near as clear cut as the case of falling from the sky without a parachute.

We have a known-safe vaccine that has been tested on millions of people. We have a known-deadly pandemic that has killed almost 4.5 million people.

While we are not QUITE as clearcut as parachutes, this is still an area where we can reasonably conclude that the vaccine is vastly safer than being unvaccinated.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#766

Post by walterbell »

kristjansson wrote: post #709

All of these comments following the pattern "I'm vaccinated but [insert vaccine hesitancy content here]" sound quite a lot like the "I'm a democrat but [insert pro-trump content]" comments that abounded in the last cycle. I don't know what to make of it. Is this a rhetorical strategy that really works? A tic of people experiencing cognitive dissonance?

PTSD from downvotes and/or stereotypical responses?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#767

Post by peteradio »

learc83 wrote: post #339
thepasswordis wrote: post #200

People don’t want to take the vaccine because others are trying to force them to. They would say “it’s not FDA approved!” not as the core of their hesitancy, but because they were trying to be appeal to pro-vax peoples decision making framework. I don’t think we should be able to require them to. To many of you here: imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities wo…

Do you have any specific examples of this?: "weird, Orwellian ways that the government talks about it" Public schools, colleges, and the military have been requiring vaccines for decades. >It ends up feeling less like the decisions are guided by science and more like they’re guided by petty tyrants wanting to control what others do. This sounds like a result of reading about what health care and government officials…

Why should a University Professor (or some benefactor) have to spend (hundreds? tens) of thousands of dollars defending their naturally derived antibodies? The result of that effort didn't even result in a University making broad exception for those with "suitably up-to-snuff immunities", they just let the one guy teach.

I'm under the impression that the vast majority of mandates have exceptions for existing immunity, no?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#768

Post by gfodor »

kristjansson wrote: post #755
015a wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its totally healthy to both believe that the vaccine makes sense for you, and still respect, love, include, and accomodate people who decide it isn't right for them. We're all different, and the world is very complicated; that's what makes life so awesome.

That's a nice sentiment[1], but why couch it in such an odd construction? "I took it, but here's a bunch of reasons not to" doesn't come across as an argument for equanimity and individual decision making, it comes across as an argument not to take it. [1]: though 'include' carries a _lot_ of potential interpretations there :)

No, it comes off as an argument that there are arguments to not take it. Which is a subtle, but important difference.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#769

Post by mdp2021 »

kelnos wrote: post #587
mlang23 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccination is still not mandatory, right? Why do you write "excuse"? Are you really so full of yourself that you can not accept that people make different decisions from yours? Why do you even care? I assume you got the vaccine for yourself. So what is the issue? Why do you have to speak about your fellow humans in such a derogatory tone?

Unvaccinated people are prolonging the pandemic, and everything about it: restrictions, lockdowns, healthcare workers' extreme overwork, you name it. Let's also not forget those of us who have friends and family who have compromised immune systems or who cannot be vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons, or children under 12 who cannot yet be vaccinated. Anti-vaxxers are actively causing those people harm. I care b…

No, kelnos, there exist unvaccinated that take all possible precautions not to be spreaders. I know people (asymptomatic supposedly non infectious but-you-never-know) who lock the car windows and airflow when they pass into inhabited areas; I know people that have broken shoes and are not going to a shop to replace them (I am not joking). Their cynicism is at level "if a particle roams the air and enters the window, tough luck..." - if you want to blame at that level, ok. (If you want to also note the damages for the shoe industry and all the equivalent, that would be understandable.)

Other people are much more leaning towards frowning upon the partytime people "let us hug and stay together and forget about it all". Those other people believe that if people had been careful, the damages would have been minimal. Using some of your words,

«the virus could be [...] controlled by now in any country with a sufficient» carefulness in the population.

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