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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#761

Post by carschno »

collaborative wrote: post #718
gryfft wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who huffily decry "politics" also tend to have political beliefs which they feel are apolitical. Examining and unpacking those beliefs is "political," however, so that the net result is "I just don't want my politics questioned or examined, even when it affects other people."

Believe it or not there are plenty of people who live their lifes outside of politics. They don't vote, they don't have any favorites in the political arena Politics is divisive and agressive. Some people are put off by the easy narratives of good vs bad Only dictatorships have historically wanted to permeate every aspect of life with politics. The USSR used to say "everything is politics". There are plenty of exampl…

That is one way to see it, aka a political opinion.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#763

Post by dav43 »

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

I’m not adding anything particular of value but just to say - I agree.

The current environment - at least online - is you have to be for something, picking a side.

Against you however, people may say - we can’t turn off that part of who we are and be different at work. People have forgotten that saying nothing is an option. Stop talking - especially the people which shout opinions loudly and add no value.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#764

Post by DebtDeflation »

darkerside wrote: post #756
koonsolo wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know the expression 'no politics or religion'? That is because you can't create a nice and fun environment where people start clashing over these topics. You can discuss personal things, make jokes with your colleagues, etc. I think that is a very healthy environment. An environment where people have strong opinions on politics an religion is never a nice environment. Never. So I think it's fair that in a work…

People with strong opinions can still talk about them and get along. See every time interfaith community leaders collaborate on a food drive, charity event, etc. The key is to remember that not everyone agrees with your strong opinion, or even cares about that, and that shouldn't make them any less important to you as a person. And yes, these environments exist, I've worked in them.

>See every time interfaith community leaders collaborate on a food drive, charity event, etc.

I'm guessing they tend to focus their discussions on the food drive, charity event, or other task at hand. Not whether Jesus is the messiah or whether Isaac or Ishmael is the rightful heir to Abraham.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#765

Post by [deleted] »

tjpnz wrote: post #592

Sometimes if I have a spare moment and a thought pops into my head I'll put it into a notes app. Sometimes I'll go back and expand these notes to the point where I've essentially got a blog post. I've got dozens of these but I'm just too afraid to post them. It's not that I'm saying anything terribly provocative either, it's mostly about coding and my experiences living in Japan. Yet there's always going to be a way…

[deleted]

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#766

Post by christophilus »

darkerside wrote: post #756
koonsolo wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know the expression 'no politics or religion'? That is because you can't create a nice and fun environment where people start clashing over these topics. You can discuss personal things, make jokes with your colleagues, etc. I think that is a very healthy environment. An environment where people have strong opinions on politics an religion is never a nice environment. Never. So I think it's fair that in a work…

People with strong opinions can still talk about them and get along. See every time interfaith community leaders collaborate on a food drive, charity event, etc. The key is to remember that not everyone agrees with your strong opinion, or even cares about that, and that shouldn't make them any less important to you as a person. And yes, these environments exist, I've worked in them.

My favorite conversations are with those who disagree with me. Even better, if we’re smoking cigars around a campfire.

My least favorite conversations are those that are regularly foisted upon me with no consideration of whether I even want to talk.

Hint: at work, I want to write software, not listen to you talk (for the 50th time) about why you’re voting for Rick Santorum.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#767

Post by matheusmoreira »

globular-toast wrote: post #746
archsurface wrote: post #2

I have no tolerance for politics at work. As far as woke at work goes, not too long ago someone in my office commented on slack "I don't approve of unnecessarily gendered emoji" - I can't even begin to imagine what sort of mind produces such thoughts. First world problems? No idea.

I can imagine what sort of mind produces such thoughts: an unoccupied one. Lots of people are going to work just to get out of the house and doing make-work. They aren't invested in their work. It isn't what they want to do. The work isn't real with real outcomes and real responsibility. It's not hard.

> I can imagine what sort of mind produces such thoughts: an unoccupied one.

A distracted mind, perhaps. I think it's interesting how far from the economy politics has shifted. I have the impression that before the 21st century people used to fight a lot more for worker's rights, unionization, better working and living conditions... You know, things that actually impacted the bottom line of capitalists. Curiously, all this mainstream "wokeness" seems to have begun after Occupy Wall Street.

Politics seems to have been de-economized and the economy seems to have been de-politicized.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#768

Post by darkerside »

madrox wrote: post #144

I'm not sure where we go from here, but not being able to escape anxiety-inducing situations in a workplace is the definition of a toxic work environment. I don't think the answer is a return to 20th century "no politics at work," but at the FAANG I worked at, politics was impossible to avoid. Even the desire to be apolitical is itself criticized at worst and not respected at best. Work doesn't afford the use of the…

Anxiety is a normal emotion. If it's pervasive it can certainly be a problem, but I'll also point out that anxiety inducing situations can have nothing to do with politics, of course.

People who approach others like this are putting themselves out there. They are just as at risk, if not more, as you would be by expressing your own responses in a non threatening way. If you don't know how to do that, I suggest you learn. It'll give you a voice at work.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#769

Post by danmur »

wpietri wrote: post #374
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. I disagree. The notion that humans turn into employer-owned production machinery for 8 hours a day is one very particular way to conceptualize work. But it ignores both the individual as a whole person and the society that contains and enables the workplace to function. To me, even as a former and perhaps future entrepr…

You can have fun and socialise at work without devolving it into constant arguing. At my current job everyone's fairly mature and I think that even though there are lots of radical opinions it stays very congenial because people back off when it's unwelcome. I don't think there's anything to do with the bosses being gods, or people pretending to be robots. There are plenty of places where you can have heated discussions, it doesn't have to be at work.

Additionally: my employer pays me to fulfill their requirements. That's what I'm there for. If I don't enjoy some aspect of the work (or if it's a shitshow of unrelated and unresolvable arguments that I can't opt out of) I'll leave, I'm free to do that.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#770

Post by MomoXenosaga »

koonsolo wrote: post #752
wpietri wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. I disagree. The notion that humans turn into employer-owned production machinery for 8 hours a day is one very particular way to conceptualize work. But it ignores both the individual as a whole person and the society that contains and enables the workplace to function. To me, even as a former and perhaps future entrepr…

Do you know the expression 'no politics or religion'? That is because you can't create a nice and fun environment where people start clashing over these topics. You can discuss personal things, make jokes with your colleagues, etc. I think that is a very healthy environment. An environment where people have strong opinions on politics an religion is never a nice environment. Never. So I think it's fair that in a work…

This very much. It really comes down to "majority rule". If you don't follow the majority you will be bullied and quit. Woke is the enemy of diversity.
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