Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh man, 100 thousand percent agreed with this. I'm not sure why this seems to have escaped the notice of a lot of the discussion here. If you suddenly are confronted with the fact that the company you worked for isn't what you thought it was, you're left with a pretty significant choice to make. If I had something like that happen to me, I wouldn't have needed the severance to bolt.
Easier said than done. If it was me I would certainly think three times before quitting over this.
“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
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Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#762As an European. I don't get this. So, employees create a list for making fun of people. Employees start to fight each other because they take offense. Company states at work, you're supposed to work, not to discuss politics. Th bad actor is the company so we all leave. (??!!!) Honestly, I don't get it. I think it is a cultural thing in the US, due to the long term racism issues ,etc. And how extremely easy is for Ame…
You missed a midpoint here, when employees stated that the list could be racist towards people with Asian heritage, the cofounder doubled down on it, claimed that only 10% could be, and well actuallyed it all and then shut down any communication or talk about it. It was crappy management that didn't listen to problems
This is the real shameful thing here, from my biased european point of view. This is the intolerable part.
Now, shutting these discussions off *from work* is the right thing to do in my opinion. Because they literally have no end, and the company is a business, which needs to build products, which needs to sell, so you have your money. If you spend your day discussing politics, you don't make money.
Do you want to discuss politics? Do you really want to discuss these societal problems? I'm all in for it, lets grab a beer at 6am pm at the pub across the street and come up with a solution for these problems. Let's found a political party or an association or whatever we want to do to fix problem.
At least here, in europe, the moment you propose to do these things out of work hours, you 1) See 80% lose interest in their principles and prefer to go home and enjoy their kids and 2) You get to meet with the 20% people with the real interest in fixing things for a better world.
I insist in my opinion. It is not that these things should not be talked about, dismissed, or whatever. These are important things for the future. It is that your workplace *is not* the place for this.
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#763Earlier quoted context omitted.
Our experience when we issued our "No Politics / No Religion" policy at work was very positive. The few people who had an issue with it, subsequently quit or were terminated, and many of their co-workers actually thanked us afterwards for it. We didn't have to pay them to leave. One tried to use the company social media accounts to advance her politics, so we fired her, and the other person became frustrated that she…
Why not just... manage people well? No need to make it no politics/no religion at work. Endless talking about keto or veganism or BeachBody or CrossFit or vaccines or children or being anti-child or emacs or vim or whatever can be just as divisive and counterproductive if it's not managed . Lots of people are assholes or misinformed about a lot of stuff. Big deal. Manage. That's the active part of the word "manager".…
This feels like a statement along the same lines as "just don't be poor".
If it's so easy to manage, how come so many people screw it up?
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#764Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree. It’s about professionalism. Flame wars at work create a hostile environment where quiet voices are silenced. It’s the same reason HN bans political flame wars.
DHH is the guy who defended porn as a suitable metaphor for a CouchDB talk. I don't think professionalism is his north star.
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#765I don't think this is really about making fun of people's names, or holocaust references. It's about power. The managers at basecamp were unhappy that their employees asserted power over them in the workplace, and decided to assert their own power in turn over what they view as their personal fiefdom and retract some of the freedoms they had so graciously granted their workers, because those ungrateful workers actual…
Agree. If only for: > Hansson’s response to this employee [that apologized for participating in the list] took aback many of the workers I spoke with. He dug through old chat logs to find a time when the employee in question participated in a discussion about a customer with a funny-sounding name. Hansson posted the message — visible to the entire company — and dismissed the substance of the employee’s complaint. (Fr…
However, I have to say that if I had stated "Yes, I'm embarrassed that we didn't put a stop to this list far earlier." and then some employee kept objecting, referring to the pyramid of hate and genocide and all that and I knew that said person had participated in the making fun of names themselves, I would be tempted to call that out as well.
That does not make it right and it certainly shouldn't have happened publicly but I don't think it reveals quite the character flaw that some seem to think it does.
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#766As an European. I don't get this. So, employees create a list for making fun of people. Employees start to fight each other because they take offense. Company states at work, you're supposed to work, not to discuss politics. Th bad actor is the company so we all leave. (??!!!) Honestly, I don't get it. I think it is a cultural thing in the US, due to the long term racism issues ,etc. And how extremely easy is for Ame…
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#767Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#768As an European. I don't get this. So, employees create a list for making fun of people. Employees start to fight each other because they take offense. Company states at work, you're supposed to work, not to discuss politics. Th bad actor is the company so we all leave. (??!!!) Honestly, I don't get it. I think it is a cultural thing in the US, due to the long term racism issues ,etc. And how extremely easy is for Ame…
You completely omit the company's actual response. If the company had shut down the list as being unprofessional and that "work is for work" we wouldn't be here. So I don't really get your point. Are you saying in the EU that if such a list were circulating, the business would take a stance that the list has a place in the workplace? That seems to contradict your statement that "work is for work" And, honestly, mocki…
Ok, I assumed this was done and part of all the changes they just did. Wasn't it? Are they still sharing the list around?
Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”
#769I don't think this is really about making fun of people's names, or holocaust references. It's about power. The managers at basecamp were unhappy that their employees asserted power over them in the workplace, and decided to assert their own power in turn over what they view as their personal fiefdom and retract some of the freedoms they had so graciously granted their workers, because those ungrateful workers actual…
He’s now complaining about cancel culture on Twitter, which is extremely political.