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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

annehelen.substack.com

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#761

Post by plankers »

deburo wrote: post #618
blihp wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 10% margin also often doesn't tell the whole story of how they make their money. Nearly since its inception, a substantial portion of McDonald's long term profit came from the appreciation of the real estate the stores were built on. Operating a business on it just made it cash flow positive during the holding period. So it was essentially a REIT that happened to operate a fast food chain. Even for many mom-and-pop…

>If they honestly can't afford to pay a living wage It's not logical to kill businesses by arbitrarily raising the minimum wage. Do you think the people they employ are better off not working at all? These people may not have a decent enough salary, but they get to work as opposed to staying at home and degenerate (mentally and physically). I always thought the better solution is to help them financially in other way…

>they get to work as opposed to staying at home and degenerate (mentally and physically)

I almost spit out my drink. You must have a pretty small imagination if you think that working for somebody else is the only way to stimulate yourself mentally and physically.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#762

Post by andrei_says_ »

syshum wrote: post #414
andrei_says_ wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Maintaining laws which force working employees into poverty in order to support inadequate business models is not the solution. Employees outnumber business owners - more people having spending power is vital for the economy.

>>which force working employees into poverty I think you have a widely unorthodox defination of "force" as no one is forced to take any job at any wage. Force in the equation would come from the government using the threat of government violence to force a wage on a business owner. A person that voluntary accepts a job for X wage is not "forced" to do so.

No one is “forced” to pay rent or food or for education or healthcare. Yes, you are correct.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#763

Post by markvdb »

ehnto wrote: post #701
deburo wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If they honestly can't afford to pay a living wage It's not logical to kill businesses by arbitrarily raising the minimum wage. Do you think the people they employ are better off not working at all? These people may not have a decent enough salary, but they get to work as opposed to staying at home and degenerate (mentally and physically). I always thought the better solution is to help them financially in other way…

Please think about the holistic nature of your argument. The sum of it's parts essentially suggests that taxpayers should subsidize the employment costs of businesses, which is ridiculous.

This is exactly what government does in Belgium for specific types of jobs, like home cleaning aids for example.

Before the (significant) wage subsidy, they used to almost always be paid under the table. Now they earn a proper salary with all extra security that entails.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#764

Post by plankers »

dmitriid wrote: post #750
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah but the job market is not a free market, because not getting a job is existential for those seeking the job, while the company can usually just survive when a position is not filled for a certain time. This is, to begin with, not true. It's common for small businesses to be operating at the margin. If you don't have someone making the sandwiches then you don't have revenue and you still have rent and utilities…

> This is, to begin with, not true. I will never stop being amazed at how Americans argue that something decent is wrong, or untrue, or even impossible... when Europe exists.

It does get old eventually.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#765

Post by lucian1900 »

randomopining wrote: post #656
lucian1900 wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of benefit is not equal. Imperialist countries (US, western EU, etc.) have extremely favourable terms obtained under military threat. Often onerous terms are imposed, like privatisations or deregulation. One recent example is Bolivia’s rare earth mining. A German company was offering only ~5% of the value of extracted material in exchange for the capital required, while a Chinese SOE offered 50%. Not long…

Under military threat? Yet no specifics on that. CCP does baiting with predatory loans to lock countries in with easy money up front. You sound like you’re biased

Has the US not invaded, coup-ed and threatened numerous countries? Is it not now occupying several? Does it not have bases encircling all countries opposed to its imperialism? I thought this was common knowledge.

The IMF, World Bank and European Central Bank do indeed offer predatory loans with strict conditions (like privatisation, deregulation, austerity) and at usury rates. Countries have a choice between this and being blockaded through military power, like Iran, Syria, Libya, DPRK, etc.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#766

Post by ehnto »

pyuser583 wrote: post #760
ehnto wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're trying to suggest that an NGO couldn't run without a low minimum wage because it couldn't afford it, but there are ways to structure an organization that society is willing to volunteer labour for without jacking up the rest of the community. I say that as someone with a partner in a very similar position to yours. No one is working at McDonalds out of the kindness of their heart. For my partner's work…

Ok, maybe a better example is being a secret agent for the CIA. The CIA is able to recruit people for the Clandestine Service who could easily make millions at a bank. They get paid about 90k a year, for more work. Why? Because they get to be freaking secret agents! Are they being exploited? I know some folks who used to work for intelligence agencies. They seem to think so. The “secret agent” factor is bullshit. The…

To be clear was talking about exploitation regarding the minimum wage, I agree with you that there are many other ways exploit people.

A great example in your favour is pilots working for minimum wage because people just want to be pilots so bad. But these are really exceptions, the vast majority of people just want to eat and make rent with any job and they're not able to. Companies know they've got no choice but to work at non-livable wages, so that's the most prominent exploitation around minimum wage that we're trying to solve by raising it. Make it so people in poverty don't have to trade there lives in exchange for money that can't even sustain their position in poverty.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#767

Post by lucian1900 »

parineum wrote: post #637
lucian1900 wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of benefit is not equal. Imperialist countries (US, western EU, etc.) have extremely favourable terms obtained under military threat. Often onerous terms are imposed, like privatisations or deregulation. One recent example is Bolivia’s rare earth mining. A German company was offering only ~5% of the value of extracted material in exchange for the capital required, while a Chinese SOE offered 50%. Not long…

Still no specifics.

As I said, first the imperialism would stop. No more military threats, no more WTO enforcing unfair rules, forgiving all IMF loans, etc.

That would allow trade to no longer be based such an extreme difference in the price of labour, so the victim countries could retain a majority of the value of their labour. By no longer losing value to profits at every step of production and distribution, consumer prices wouldn’t have to increase and could even be lowered in most cases.

Merely dismantling the US army would vastly reduce global carbon emissions. Building high density housing, public transportation, universal healthcare, public utilities, etc. would further reduce the US’s majority contributions.

Countries that were kept poor for centuries could be gifted low-carbon energy sources as part of reparations, so as to not need to emit carbon to develop.

A lot can be done once the oppressor countries stop constantly extracting value for a few individuals.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#768

Post by Frondo »

WalterBright wrote: post #635
Frondo wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with people who are making poverty wages?

It has to do with your claim that poor people "generally much, much better at managing it than anyone else".

I don't see how a news entertainment program you saw many years ago actually addresses how well poor people are at making the most of their very limited dollars.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#769

Post by watwut »

deburo wrote: post #618
blihp wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 10% margin also often doesn't tell the whole story of how they make their money. Nearly since its inception, a substantial portion of McDonald's long term profit came from the appreciation of the real estate the stores were built on. Operating a business on it just made it cash flow positive during the holding period. So it was essentially a REIT that happened to operate a fast food chain. Even for many mom-and-pop…

>If they honestly can't afford to pay a living wage It's not logical to kill businesses by arbitrarily raising the minimum wage. Do you think the people they employ are better off not working at all? These people may not have a decent enough salary, but they get to work as opposed to staying at home and degenerate (mentally and physically). I always thought the better solution is to help them financially in other way…

Unprofitable business paying below mininum wage distorts the market. They are in direct competition with businesses who do pay minimum wage and have advantage.

Otherwise said, these not ending is bad thing.

And none of that is for benefit of worker.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#770

Post by didibus »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

What's the absolute number attached to that? 10% could be a lot or very little.
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