WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app • Hacker News Board

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#761

Post by pmlnr » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:10 PM UTC

kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

> I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible.

It has to start somewhere. It is possible, but it takes will, and the acceptance that you will lose some contacts.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#762

Post by timvisee » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:11 PM UTC

pkamb wrote: post #437

The part that creeps me out the most is WhatsApp’s aggressiveness towards getting your Contacts. Other apps want them but WhatsApp hardly works without the permission. Why hasn’t Apple introduced a private/segmented Contacts permission like they have Photos, Location, etc.?

In fact they grab your whole contact list, and according to the updated policy, they share it with the other Facebook Companies. So even if you refuse to use the app, it's still very likely that your contact information will end up on their servers because you're friends are probably using the app.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#763

Post by emteycz » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:12 PM UTC

llampx wrote: post #752

emteycz wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, let's make the public alternative, but I am strongly against taking over businesses.

I am strongly for taking over businesses which are de facto monopolies.

If your public alternative can't win the users then "breaking the monopoly" will worsen the user experience. I don't want to live in that world - consider Telegram, a much better experience than WhatsApp, and it won over many users already. Evidently the monopoly is not as strong as is suggested. Telegram might not exist if there was a risk of losing the company. I don't want to be stuck with bad public software. In reality, when you destroy WhatsApp, people won't use the bad software, they will go to the next player and make it a "monopoly" because it most likely will be a better user experience.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#764

Post by _0w8t » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:13 PM UTC

kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

In Norway WhatsUp is popular, but my dentist still use SMS and email, and so other businesses that I interact with. My son’s school has own app for communicating with parents and teachers use Teams to present online lectures. My son uses Discord to talk to friends, but I think he is an exception.

What is really problematic is Facebook monopoly for organizing any social activities or events. There are simply no alternatives especially among 30-50 years old. Like the saying, “What parents were afraid video game would do to children, Facebook did to parents.”

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#765

Post by Freak_NL » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:13 PM UTC

krageon wrote: post #709

jcalve wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it would force people to use better alternatives such as Signal or Telegram.

Signal is run by someone who hates repeatable builds and open platforms. Telegram is to the russian government what whatsapp is to the US government. That is to say, both options are bad. Of course it is conceptually better to spread your information over many separate information silos so that your data is harder to correlate. That should not be the bar we aspire to though.

All of these apps seem to hate open platforms and third party clients; Signal just as much as WhatsApp. I wouldn't even mind using WhatsApp if I could just open a browser window on any modern computer and log on like I can with Twitter. But no, I need to have a smartphone with either Android or IOS. They all want that magic unique personal identifier that is the mobile phone number to prevent you from having more than one persona, and they all want their closed apps as the sole way of using their service.

Of course, that requirement is exactly how they implement the user lock-in, so it's not going anywhere until legislation forces them to open up.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#766

Post by edeion » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:14 PM UTC

Hermel wrote: post #682

silasdavis wrote: post #604

As others have mentioned increasingly small businesses (like my outdoor exercise class) and loose communities (like my child's school year parent's group) rely on WhatsApp. persuading these loose connections to move away from WhatsApp for one's own benefit is almost impossible. Sacrificing access to these social amenities on the altar of incremental privacy invasion and power transfer to an unaccountable basically ma…

It might be enough to use many different messaging apps in parallel. This enabled competition and a smooth transition between them. For example, I tend to slowly move from WhatsApp to Telegram as more new groups I join are created in Telegram while old groups in WhatsApp tend to get abandoned. Also, I often access these groups through opera via their API and not the native apps. This is a natural development in a mar…

Having different apps is probably a step forward indeed. But (as far as I understand) just having WhatsApp installed on my phone allows them to keep an eye on my contact list. That sounds quite despicable to me.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#767

Post by krageon » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:15 PM UTC

chalst wrote: post #723

krageon wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is a toxic dictator who hates the idea of ceding power so that they can have a constructive and open protocol for everyone. That means the app should never be used, by anyone. If you're going to use software like this, you may as well stay with whatsapp - at least that has a lot of users.

There is nothing wrong with the protocol, the client software or the server software; the problem is entirely with the OWS server TOS.

How would we know? The signal app as most people understand it cannot be built in a reproducible manner. This means that most people will be using something that may as well be compromised. The author does not care. It doesn't matter what the source code behind it is, as an entity signal is hostile to everything a good messaging app should be.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#768

Post by sandGorgon » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:17 PM UTC

this may fail regulatory test in India - where Whatsapp has been blocked from rolling out payments for 2 years now. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/small-biz/startups/news...

Because of regulations, Whatsapp may neither move data out of India or transfer to a third party.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#769

Post by AntiqueFig » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:22 PM UTC

Hermel wrote: post #682

silasdavis wrote: post #604

As others have mentioned increasingly small businesses (like my outdoor exercise class) and loose communities (like my child's school year parent's group) rely on WhatsApp. persuading these loose connections to move away from WhatsApp for one's own benefit is almost impossible. Sacrificing access to these social amenities on the altar of incremental privacy invasion and power transfer to an unaccountable basically ma…

It might be enough to use many different messaging apps in parallel. This enabled competition and a smooth transition between them. For example, I tend to slowly move from WhatsApp to Telegram as more new groups I join are created in Telegram while old groups in WhatsApp tend to get abandoned. Also, I often access these groups through opera via their API and not the native apps. This is a natural development in a mar…

Isn't Signal better than Telegram?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#770

Post by daemin » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:22 PM UTC

colmvp wrote: post #254

renjimen wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was nodding along with your comment, wondering why it had been downvoted until I reached your last statement and couldn't tell if you were being serious or not.

The parent poster is likely mimicking the people asking why are you asking me move to another app when this app does everything fine? To be honest, I'm not well versed in the debate of privacy, but invariably in discussing user tracking by BigCo's a lot of my friends just say "I don't care if they have my data, I've got nothing to hide."

I've been thinking about this a bit recently, and the saying should be extended to "I've got nothing to hide, now." Things change and either you'll do something which you'll want to hide, or society/politics/community will change which you'll have something to hide.

An example in the first case is that you'll want to buy a secret gift for someone, but because of the tracking the surprise will be spoiled because they'll be seeing ads for it on their systems.