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YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer for hate speech

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Re: YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer for hate speech

#761

I don't think people would have a problem with this if the political public squares (YouTube, Reddit, Twitter, etc) - and that IS what they are - applied these policy changes to everyone equally. What's happened is we've already gone over the edge. Racism has been redefined to only be effectively possible by white people in the West. The intention of this change is racist in itself. Putting aside freedom of speech, w…

I read your comment and wrestled with the dilemma of making the effort to rebut vs just down-voting you and walking away.

Firstly, your comment contains a bunch of unsubstantiated opinion.

"...we've already gone over the edge". What edge?

"Racism has been redefined...". Where? By whom?

"The intention of this change is racist in itself". Who's intention? The 'racism redefiners'? If they're a large group, how can they all have a unified intention? Is there some manifesto you can point to, or something that exposes the 'intention'?

"What people likely have a problem with...". The use of the word 'likely' tells me you're just guessing here.

"...all the OTHER racists". This implicitly acknowledges the banned people mentioned are in fact racists, but it sounds like you're defending these racists by pointing out that there are different racists being treated differently. "Stop picking on OUR racists! There's some other racists over there too!".

"These bans are political...". How are these political? Do you have any data to show that takedowns vs takedown requests vary significantly by political view.

"If these racists were A) a real problem...". If racism is a problem, and these people are racist, then by definition, these racists are a problem. Given you've acknowledged (implicitly above) that these people are racists, then you must be suggesting that racism isn't a real problem.

"...singled out...". Do you have evidence that no other 'factions' (to use your word; I'd say 'flavours') of racists have not been taken down? Remember, some being left up doesn't mean that none have been taken down.

"...then people might believe this is fair". While I'm sure some people don't believe this is fair (you might be one of them), do you have any evidence to show that this is a commonly held view?

"The modern rise of white supremacists in the West is being spurred by racist politics; it's almost as if they want to corner these people into extremist ideas." This has to be one of the most atrocious arguments I've ever heard. Let's leave aside that the racist roots behind many political groups (e.g. Klan, Nazis) go back decades if not way into the 19th century. Your argument here is like saying that a rise in domestic violence is being spurred by feminist ideas.

"...they want to corner these people into extremist ideas". No one is making racists more extreme. Racist ideas and 'theories' (to the extent that these exist in any cogent form), are largely unchanged over time. What has happened is that the bulk of western society has been, and continues to, redefine what is 'acceptable'. Racists now (like chauvinists) find themselves on the other side of a shifting boundary. No one has 'cornered' them, they just haven't moved while society has.

"I am an adherent to Daryl Davis' way of dealing with racism". Good. His approach is centered on educating racists. However this approach is not at all at odds with blocking hate speech from virtual 'town squares' (which are actually 'corporate plazas').

"... meant to consolidate far-leftist power". Firstly, to consolidate power, the far-leftists would need to be in power. Manifestly untrue. Secondly, unless the Communist Party of America are still alive and kicking, there is NO party that I'm aware of that would be considered far-left by any reasonable person outside of the US (where political definitions are so skewed they no longer make sense).

I'd also point out that the fact you are using a throwaway account to post makes me doubt that you have any intention of engaging honestly on this subject.

EDITED: s/taken left up/left up/

Re: YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer for hate speech

#763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. If you are still in this thread defending the ability for white supremacists to spew racism and hate on these platforms, then that means that you wish for them to continue relaying their awful message, in which case you are a white supremacist by definition. These awful people do not "add to the discourse" in a meaningful way. Their insane ideas should not be entertained.

I suspect that many genuinely kind hearted people think they are doing the right thing by silencing the speech of those whom they find repulsive but have never stopped to ask themselves “Why are the oligarchs on my side?” Project Dragonfly is alive and well and unfolding before our very eyes. This is how democracy dies.

I wish I could upvote this more. Many folks here fancy themselves as intellectual people, yet they do backflips in logic to justify silencing voices they find repugnant or inconvenient. The concept of free speech simply cannot have exceptions, conditions, or predications. It’s only a marketplace of ideas if the loud or powerful voices aren’t silencing and banning voices that might not be as popular. Indeed, this is how democracy dies.

Re: YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer for hate speech

#764
post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You got this the other way around. Private property needs force to be upheld. I don't follow this at all, but I'm willing to listen? How does private property require any more force to uphold compared to any other possible system? Even anarchy, if you want it to stay anarchy requires force if you have defectors.

How do you imagine absentee landlords would be able to collect rent without force? Or an even more extreme example, how would the property right of the only water source in town be upheld without force? These things are far from natural, private property in the modern sense, is a social construct upheld by force.

Without force everything is voluntary, private property doesn't cease to exist as long as people have honor and abide by their word. It seems any reasonable system of people upholding their contracts would eventually result in private property?

Re: YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer for hate speech

#765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You got this the other way around. Private property needs force to be upheld. I don't follow this at all, but I'm willing to listen? How does private property require any more force to uphold compared to any other possible system? Even anarchy, if you want it to stay anarchy requires force if you have defectors.

Private property implies ownership. The moment you assume ownership, you have to be ready to defend your claim against a counter claimant. How you defend this claim depends on where (and when) you live, but almost uniformly requires force - either directly (violence) or indirectly (court systems and police, aka violence by proxy). If there is no concept of private property, the need to defend ownership ceases. If no…

Thank you, I think I understand now. I appreciate you taking the time to make me get it.

Re: YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer for hate speech

#766
post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>dated concept of free (hate) speech Explain further how free speech is a dated concept we don't need anymore.

Some content fosters the development of extremists/terrorists. This type of content does not use the platform in good faith. It's only objective is to trap listeners in a spiral of extremist content, basically brainwashing them. In some cases this even leads to violent acts. E.g. there have been multiple terrorist acts where it was determined that this extremist content played a crucial role in the enabling of the pe…

Without free speech, there would be no LGBT Pride in the first place. They were seen as extremists.

Having free speech but only for people who say mainstream things is equivalent to saying "I like the world as it exists today". That is conservatism by definition.

Re: YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer for hate speech

#767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do generic "Europeans" have in common with each other? As a Russian, I feel like my culture overlaps relatively little with French, German, or English. Moreover, which parts of "Europe" are actually included in this taxonomy? Are Romani considered white? What about Southern Italians? Black people in France? It all boils down to "people of European heritage with white skin (whose ancestors wrote books and stuff t…

I agree it's a bit wishy-washy. But that's what it means. Everyone (in the U.S.) when they say whites, they pretty much always mean anyone with white skin who have European heritage. Yup, so even if some poor Croatian guy just got off the boat, as long as he looked white enough for Americans, some of them would say he benefited from American slavery of blacks and must renounce his white privilege.

Regardless of your origin or connection to American history, I think it's healthy and socially responsible to face your "default privilege." The point isn't to feel guilty, but to become fully aware of the social structures underpinning your country, and to develop a sense of empathy for those who are forced to consider their skin color every day of the year when you can go weeks without even thinking about it. (And I say this as a first-generation immigrant.)

In any case, this has little to do with the original topic of establishing a black-focused community.

Re: YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer for hate speech

#768
post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you imagine absentee landlords would be able to collect rent without force? Or an even more extreme example, how would the property right of the only water source in town be upheld without force? These things are far from natural, private property in the modern sense, is a social construct upheld by force.

Without force everything is voluntary, private property doesn't cease to exist as long as people have honor and abide by their word. It seems any reasonable system of people upholding their contracts would eventually result in private property?

There is nothing natural nor reasonable about absentee ownership. It has always been upheld by force. By kings, feudal lords etc. For other cultures, like for example native americans, the entire concept was completely foreign.

Re: YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer for hate speech

#769

[flagged]

Why are you talking about Marxists, right now specifically?

As it happens I made a long rambling comment about certain politicians peddling propaganda narratives like "antifa" have switched to "marxists" when discussing things like Black Lives Matters protestors or the debranding of things like Corn Syrup Black Lady.

A week or two ago I noticed that suddenly the spigot of antifa hysteria stopped: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=antifa&geo=US

Replacing this was the threat of "marxist protestors" and such: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=marxist

Why are you talking about Marxists now? Where did you pick up your script? And no offense, but were you involved in peddling scripts about antifa or similar tropes recently? I am honestly interested to know.

Re: YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer for hate speech

#770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What free speech? The government isn't preventing these awful people from spewing their hate. Companies refusing to host their content is not a violation of the first amendment. By your logic, the first amendment has no salutary rationale. We allow Neo nazis to march merely because the first amendment prohibits us from stopping them from marching, and for no other reason. There is no animating principle that we mig…

If we're going to have a marketplace of ideas, then some ideas will become popular and win, and some ideas will become unpopular and lose. This is how marketplaces are supposed to work. If we want a forum for speech where every idea is always welcome, and platformed, and no one is allowed to lose no matter how unpopular they are, I don't know what you'd call that. I'd call it a form of hell, personally. Philosophical…

In a marketplace of ideas, unpopular views would get... unpopular view counts (on Youtube and elsewhere).

If you want to keep with this analogy, censorship is a form of protectionism, so your marketplace of ideas is not a free market.

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